Flourish Excel overdose warning

[cpfc]

Black bearded algae was getting out of hand of hand in the tank so I thought I would try the Flourish Excel overdose trick. 10 caps in 215l. The Mrs noticed fish at the top of the tank as though they were gasping for air an hour later. Immediate water change and fish were no longer gasping. That evening a Red Fin Kadanga died. I tested water and there was 0.25 ammonia. I did another water change.

The next morning I had ammonia and nitrite. That evening another water change. 2 days later nitrite at 0.5. 3 days later nitrite at 0.25. Water change each day, a cap of prime and stablity.

My screw up has killed a fish and done harm to the others. Please think before overdosing Flourish Excel and the packet does warn about it. In hindsight I researched it and found other similiar stories. I feel like crap over this.

[mcloughlin2]

If I'm not mistaken Matzilla had a similar issue where he lost his prized pair of geo's.

I heard of another experiance where a LFS suggested the double dose. Killed all the fish in the tank in much the same way you have said. Upon examination of other bottles of excel in the shop it was discovered there was an issue with the label on the bottle. Turns out the excel label had been stuck over the top of another seachem product that isn't safe at all to double dose!

Words of warning; be very careful about overdosing anything!

[cpfc]

You warning is right. The problem is that double dosing Excel is all over the net as an Algae killer.

I am fortunate to only have killed one and if chemistry improves it will hopefully stay at one. The label on Excel says do not overdose.

If I'm not mistaken Matzilla had a similar issue where he lost his prized pair of geo's.

I heard of another experiance where a LFS suggested the double dose. Killed all the fish in the tank in much the same way you have said. Upon examination of other bottles of excel in the shop it was discovered there was an issue with the label on the bottle. Turns out the excel label had been stuck over the top of another seachem product that isn't safe at all to double dose!

Words of warning; be very careful about overdosing anything!

[killiguy]

Ive one tank full of that blasted Black bearded algae.Is there anyway of killing it (appart from the topic of this post which seems an no-no)or does something eat it.The tank is occupied by 50 young Enantiopus "Kelisa"and I dont want to kill them

[Aquaholic]

Ive one tank full of that blasted Black bearded algae.Is there anyway of killing it (appart from the topic of this post which seems an no-no)or does something eat it.The tank is occupied by 50 young Enantiopus "Kelisa"and I dont want to kill them

Hydrogen peroxide works but I remove objects/ plants from the tank and treat seperately

[Chris.K]

what the hell is black bearded algae ? where did it come from and is it common ? i had some brown and green algae a while back but my 2 small plecos and 4 clown loaches ate it all in around 48hrs.

[Ducksta]

I'm confused about this. Not having an individual go at anyone here...

But why would you follow what you read on the internet and not the manufacturers instructions?

It's one thing to be a bit off, but it sounds like you double dosed a product with an overdose warning?

Would you take a double dose of the maximum prescribed morphine because you read it on the internet? (Actually, that sounds awesome)

Also, I'm failing to see the logic of how a double dose of a fertilizer is supposed to cut back algal growth?

[cpfc]

Would you take a double dose of the maximum prescribed morphine because you read it on the internet? (Actually, that sounds awesome)

Does sounds awesome. I made a mistake by following what a number of people have tried and succeded with.

Also, I'm failing to see the logic of how a double dose of a fertilizer is supposed to cut back algal growth?

My research has found the active ingredient of this stuff is used as a poison to clear the ballasts of ships tanks of organisms. There is a substantial number of people out there who have found that in situations Excel is poisonous to Algae. I found it is poisonous to fish and filter bacteria as well at higher doses.

[Pilly]

Iv used it sucessfuly up to 3X dose in my planted tanks. At a double dose it really knocks a few species of plants around especially HM, foxtail, mosses and liverworts @ 3X killes them. I run rainbows & Blue Eyes in these tanks and have never lost a fish. In saying that these tanks are heavily planted jungles and would have utalised a proportion of the glut in photosynthesis before it could ever effect the fish/filter.

Try using your normal dose and spot dosing the algae directly. Alternatively use H2O2 spot dosing. Dont use H2O2 at a dilution over 1ppm total water volume. H2O2 is also deadly to the above plants mosses and shrimp especially.

[cpfc]

BBA hitched a ride with some val. It is ugly but mainly on the top of some plants. Plecos do not eat it.

what the hell is black bearded algae ? where did it come from and is it common ? i had some brown and green algae a while back but my 2 small plecos and 4 clown loaches ate it all in around 48hrs.

[Pilly]

Val is another species excel is not recomended to use with.

[V33Man]

I've also used it successfully at 2x dosage in a planted discus tank to control BBA without casualties to plants or fish. The active ingredient, Glutaraldehyde is used as a carbon source for planted tanks and is also known to kill off some types of algae as a secondary process. Seachem do not market the product as an algae killer though.

Chris.K - here's some good info on Black Beard Algae and other types of algae "Algae ID"

[Chris.K]

Chris.K - here's some good info on Black Beard Algae and other types of algae "Algae ID"

great link. thanks !

[cpfc]

I still have nitrites however I am detoxifying with safe. There is a recommended dosage of Safe/Prime to detoxify nitrite. This gives me the confidence that feeding small amounts to the fish is not harmful. Tomorrow I will have to get more stability. Nitrites are still 0.5. This is after 30% water changes every night. Getting a bit tedious. According to research the detoxified nitrites will be detected until the bio filter reactivates.

[cpfc]

Interesting alternate view point on algae. I have good oxygen, circulation and the aquarium is cycled. The only organic build up I can think of could be caused by val poking over the surface which will catch food. I feed with Cichlid pellets so I doubt it is that. The main BBA is on the anubias. Africans are also pretty efficient eater especially when combined with 8 petricolas and 2 BNs.

Anyhow after this I will see what the algae does as all I want is 0 nitrite and happy bonking fish.

Let’s name the real reasons behind algae issues in planted aquariums which are dosed with nutrients on regular bases:

Low Oxygen level

Insufficient water circulation

Organic build-up

Un-cycled aquarium

I've also used it successfully at 2x dosage in a planted discus tank to control BBA without casualties to plants or fish. The active ingredient, Glutaraldehyde is used as a carbon source for planted tanks and is also known to kill off some types of algae as a secondary process. Seachem do not market the product as an algae killer though.

Chris.K - here's some good info on Black Beard Algae and other types of algae "Algae ID"

[Pilly]

fixed

[V33Man]

Interesting alternate view point on algae. I have good oxygen, circulation and the aquarium is cycled. The only organic build up I can think of could be caused by val poking over the surface which will catch food. I feed with Cichlid pellets so I doubt it is that. The main BBA is on the anubias. Africans are also pretty efficient eater especially when combined with 8 petricolas and 2 BNs.

Anyhow after this I will see what the algae does as all I want is 0 nitrite and happy bonking fish.

Let’s name the real reasons behind algae issues in planted aquariums which are dosed with nutrients on regular bases:

Low Oxygen level

Insufficient water circulation

Organic build-up

Un-cycled aquarium

I've also used it successfully at 2x dosage in a planted discus tank to control BBA without casualties to plants or fish. The active ingredient, Glutaraldehyde is used as a carbon source for planted tanks and is also known to kill off some types of algae as a secondary process. Seachem do not market the product as an algae killer though.

Chris.K - here's some good info on Black Beard Algae and other types of algae "Algae ID"

Do i write a page long article about the importance of nitrates in the planted aquarium or just leave this one alone..... Seriously guys if you dont understand the science/or have one dont comment!!! The real reasons behind algae issues is trying to grow plants in a glass tank....light and nutrient uptake... derogetory comments dont help or BS questions or statements. The only real cure is knowing the tank inside out.

Not too sure that there was any derogatory comments or BS Questions. Besides, the only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask.

Given that we were all here to learn from each other and ask for others opinions and experiences, I'd be more than happy to read through anything you post on the topic, as I'm sure others would too.

[Pilly]

please disreguard my coment above. it was meant to have been cut and pasted to a plant thread on another forum. I had a screaming kid on my lap at the time.

[V33Man]

please disreguard my coment above. it was meant to have been cut and pasted to a plant thread on another forum. I had a screaming kid on my lap at the time.

Cheers Pilly. I know where your coming from with the screaming kids. I have had many an argument with my 18 month old who insists on sitting on my lap, belting the keyboard and playing with the mouse while I try and use the computer.

[fishmick]

flourish excel has an initial dose of 5ml per 40 lt and a maintenance dose of 5ml per 200lt.

If you dosed 10 caps (50ml) that would equal a dose for a 2000lt tank. For a 215 litre tank the overdose rate is based on the maintenance dose so 12ml should have been added. This method has worked well for me in the past.

HTH Mick

[Noddy65]

Ive used it in the past as well...it will kill Valls so be careful

You can also spot treat with hydrogen peroxide if theres not too much algae

BBA is USUALLY due to low CO2 (very broad statement I know but it is often true, increase the CO2 and the BBA disappears)

Mike

[Ducksta]

So I'm trying to process all this.

However, I'm still struggling to follow the logic.

Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't put anything they use to poison the growth on a ships ballast in my tank.

I certainly wouldn't then overdose it.

I guess I'll stick to plastic plants to be safe.

[cpfc]

It seems utterly daft with the benefit of hindsight.

So I'm trying to process all this.

However, I'm still struggling to follow the logic.

Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't put anything they use to poison the growth on a ships ballast in my tank.

I certainly wouldn't then overdose it.

I guess I'll stick to plastic plants to be safe.

[Ducksta]

It seems utterly daft with the benefit of hindsight.

So I'm trying to process all this.

However, I'm still struggling to follow the logic.

Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't put anything they use to poison the growth on a ships ballast in my tank.

I certainly wouldn't then overdose it.

I guess I'll stick to plastic plants to be safe.

Sorry I'm not having a go.

I'm setting up my first dwarf Sth American tank and thinking about planting it.

So I'm reading all the little tid bits of info on planted tanks and fertilisers and CO2 etc etc.

And this one just kept sticking in my head.

I'm serious about the plastic plants though... They'll have to do me for now.

[cpfc]

NP. I did not take that way. If starting with plants keep it simple at first. Easy plants I have found are val, Java Fern, Java Moss, Anubias and some of the stem plants. They will work with basic lighting, no CO2 and basic fertilisation with Seachem Flourish (not excel).

There are ways of killing algae prior to introduction. I have heard of people using alum and bleach.

I personally like the benefits of plants but they do add to the work load. My experience is just a warning of a particular pitfall.

Most planted tanks are for low pH, low KH aquariums and the plants assist in maintaining the chemistry.

Main thing is to do what works for you.

Sorry I'm not having a go.

I'm setting up my first dwarf Sth American tank and thinking about planting it.

So I'm reading all the little tid bits of info on planted tanks and fertilisers and CO2 etc etc.

And this one just kept sticking in my head.

I'm serious about the plastic plants though... They'll have to do me for now.