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Health: bloat (Tropheus)


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Hi Mick,

Looks like u have things under control - Furan 2 kills gram positive and gram negative bacterial diseases and it does not effect the biological filtration.

Linco-Spectin - i havent heard of this antibiotic but if its for both gram positive and gram negative bacteria your on the right track - as Nigel has mentioned keep us updated.

If u need Furan 2 let us know.

regards

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Its very important when you give them the antbiotic to continue to soak there food in the Metrodidazol you may have to do this for about a week or two. This will help the ones that dont have the signs of bloat. It will be interesting to see how the antibiotic you have works. So when you have done the treatment i think it will help others if you give a detailed account of how it all works out. Anyway good luck mate.

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Ok antibiotic has beeen added, 1g/100l, I have also added 2 g/100l to another smaller tank( same water, still containing metronidozol) which has got a few very sad fish in it, i really dodn't expect these guys to make it but will have a go at a double dose, and see, all they do is sit on the botom, poop stringy poo, and breath pretty quick.. poor buggers. Anyways I also wanted to try higher dose, with out endangering the rest of the tank mates.

I thought about turning off the filter, or puting it on another tank to save the biofilter, but have kept it running now to clear out any nasties that might be living in there. It is pretty much due for its 6 month pull apart and clean out....]

The tank will be getting 50% water changes everyday from now on for 10 days (except 3 days when i work all day) After each water change, they will be treated every day with the antibiotic. Every 3rd day they will be dosed with 200mg/40liters with metronidozol, and all food will be soaked in metro every day.

Hopefully all will be fixed by the 28th... blush.gif

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Well it is 5 days into the treatment, The fish are enjoying a 24 hour break from treatment at the moment, until tommorrow.

I have put the fish into smaller tank , and graded them out according to the stage of sickness they are displaying,

I have 8 that are eating and have good poos

3 that are not well, one is even a bit puffy (not a lot of hope for this tank)

16 others that are intermediate, some are spitting, some have good poos occasionally,,

the good tank is getting food soaked in metro , and antibiotic.

the other tanks are getting a little bit of soaked food, and the tank is being treated with metro, and anti biotic..

So far since the begining, nearly 2 weeks ago, 5 fish are gone... next round of treatment starts at 6pm, Tuesday...

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Ok this will be short and sad.

There are 3 Kiriza left, 9 dead these guys were hit the worst, as they were the ones that started the breeding etc..

Duboisi, umm about 19 left from 22. still have the 8 that are looking good, but the others are getting worse, I will restart treatment again tomorrow, they get today off, to recover a bit.

Not happy, past angry, getting sooo frustrated, havent got a clue anymore..... cry2.gif

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I am sorry to hear the antibiotic is not working. I think you might have to try and get some of the Furan 2 that Jim uses. Thay must have a bad case of bloat it sounds like the antibiotic is not strong enough to me. Anyway mate keep us up to date on what happens.

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Trofius, I am really sorry to hear about your frustration, understandable tho, and even more so your losses.

I think your best bet would be to email Steve(BengaBoy) who, IMO, is the person to talk to about Tropheus. His oppinions will differ from many(or at least some) given here but it will be tried and tested.

HTH

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Hi Trofius,

Sorry for your state of mind atm...I went through a similar thing with some young 7 bars earlier this year sadsmiley02.gif

This is a long shot but you seem to not have much to lose by not trying this. Can you move them all to another tank? If you have a choice of tanks to move them too and can choose one full of tannin, try it. I have no scientific proof to back this up but give it a go...at the very least move them (obviously not in with other fish though wink.gif )...

merjo smile.gif

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Chears guys, I have reedited my last post, apparently there were some kiriza left, they are so dark, and young still they look like the dubosi, ( the tank is painted black on the back doesn't help)

merjo the fish were transfered form the 6x18x18 on monday, into a 2x15x15, and the real sad ones to a bucket, and the 8 good ones to a 18x9x9 inch tank, to seperate the degrees of sickness. , and to make it easier/cheaper to treat.

I was actually looking at all the crap in the bristlenose tank today wondering if transfering some of their water would be a good idea, kinda like reinoculating their guts, with good bacteria etc, and their water is mega tannins! looks like a cup o tea, but didnt really wanna touch it as i just got another 60+ ,1cm bristlenoses cruising around, might have a go at it tommorrow, as the tropheus have already had a big water change today.

Nigel i am wondering if it is because the antibiotic is not strong enough or it was too long before i treated them, 8 did get better and start eating , good poop etc.

I euthed the last really sad kiriza today, he was all but dead, and had a look inside, to check her out (6 nice ,ready eggs), gills a bit red, intestines were really clear/empty, liver was a bit smaller than i though it should be, and their was a mass of white stuff,kinda stringy.. I have pics if anyone is interested, not great for close ups but you get the general idea, just a bit late to zip it over to the vets and borrow their miocroscope....dooh.

And although this sux, i did get a little smile when I saw my Xeno flavippinis had a mouthful, hope she holds!

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I think its a bit of both. The trick with bloat the early you can treat it the more effective the antibiotic is. Anyway mate you arent the first this has happened to and i am sure you wont be the last. I have lost count of the amount of tropheus i have lost over the years because of bloat. I hope all goes well with the ones that are left.

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sry to hear Mick

just quickly - (such is my life atm)

[i havent read all the post in detail btw)

1) If those non Tropheus fish were additions to the tank within 6 weeks of the onset of trouble they I would say they introduced a bacteria yr Tropheus did not like.

2) 20% w/c fortnightly is way off the mark imho - you need 30% weekly to keep them happy and trouble free - I would be interested to know your nitrate readings - if not 1) above then this is your probable cause. or maybe 1 & 2.

hard to treat if you dont get it right away and once there is one dead one you are about 5 days too late.

but take heart you can stabilise it.

sometimes Metronidazole works and sometimes it doesnt. I am not so keen on it because it seems most effective soaked in food and the Tropheus are not eating so they are not going to get any are they? But Metro in the water has worked for me, but in conjunction with Furan, and done in a hospital tank. Both of these seem to be available in Oz.

Clout (the most effective imho) and Kanamycin are not available in Oz. You can try importing them. sometimes Clout gets impounded by Customs. Usually Kanamycin does get snaffled. Dont know why - sniffer dogs ?LOL?

this of course can be a costly exercise and does dent your treatment strategy as well.

it seems to me that with different episodes of Tropheus Bloat we might be dealing with different bacteria exhibiting the same symptoms and some of these bacteria dont respond to one antibiotic but will to another. Maybe some strains are antiobiotic resistant?

hth

Bloat does seem to occur occasionally at puberty but I doubt if it is to do with swallowing eggs etc but more to due with increased stress levels.

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Thanks for the reply Steve

Umm Kanomyacin is avaliable from the locol vet, mine doesnt stock it but can get it in a few days..expensive, and rather nasty stuff however.

The other fish were in the tank befor the tropheus were added, all except the Blue occies they were added about 4 weeks before the dramas started, maybe you are on to something there..... damm blue occies lol actualy they are the only fish I have never had with tropheus before,all th esand sifters had been with one group of tropheus at some stage earlier... The occies were quaranteened for 3 weeks before i added them. But as you mentioned maybe it is just a opertunistic pathogen.

nitrite reading, umm well hadn't done one prior to the death, mainly because the tank has never registered above 0.2, amonia and nitrate is always 0.00 I think the huge filter has something to do with it.

As mentioned about the efficacy of metronidozol, not all bacteria respond to it, the drug as in the tablet is actually inert and does nothing, it need to be partialy metabolosed by the bacteria to do anything, not all bacteria can do this, mainly anaerobic metabolisim can acheive this, hence why some protozoans are effceted by it.

Wish I had spotted problem sooner, and not gone to brisbane, for 5 days, maybe this convo would not exist....

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Ok I have alsosent the pics to an aquatic microbiologist, and he seems to think that it could be fungal type infection, which would account for several things:

-Throat occluded due to mycelium growth, hence the spitting etc

-The growth of the mycelium would cause the fish to boat

-slow death as it is slow growing

-can be infectious

-reason why antibiotics and anti protozaon medication has not worked

---although not clear what is the primary infective agent , and what is adding insult to injury, fungal/bacteria...the old what came first question.

If anyone else wants a look at the pics I can e-mail them to you, or maybe some one would host them for me..

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Ok here are a few pics, Not a pretty sight seeing a Tropheus in this state, but hopefully someone else can add something, if anyone else had done this to a fish before, does anything look wrong? this fish is about 5cm total length.

First pic, with fillet removed, exposing gills, and viscera in place. Notice the amount of white material around the intestines, fungal growth????

user posted image

The next pic shows the viscera removed and unwound, notice the empty intestines, white stringy stuff, liver, ovary with about 6 eggs? at top

user posted image

Any help is appreciated

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