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Ph Crash


AdamR

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I as mentioned in a previous post had problems with a tank with Nannochromis in. I thought at the time this was due to small levels of ammonia. I took them out and bought some rasboras to keep the cycle going. 1 hour later all the rasbora were dead and there was no nitrite or ammonia. I measured a low ph at under 6 (Limit of my scale). I figured go up to the LFS and get them to test it using the digital. It came out as 3.2. This would explain the quick deaths and unhappy fish.

Ive drain the tank and refilled it. The ph is already low and im just curious as to possible reasons it would crash. Ive been told low calcium hardness is a possible cause. If so how do i supplement calcium. In the tank ive added seachem ph down but only small amounts as the bottle read drops to 5.4, and i only wanted around 6. Any help of anyone with an understanding of how crashes are caused would be great.

Adam

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I am guessing your tap water is around Ph7, What else do you have in the tank? How big is the tank and how many is a few drops?

The Ph of tap water will drop over time but it shouldn't hapen that quickly.

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I made a massive mistake once with Seachem Acid buffer. It's strong stuff and consequently is great value for money, HOWEVER, in a small tank (mine was 40l), having something that strong is a double-edged sword. One time I put half a teaspoon more then I was meant to in the tank and managed to have my fish's skin 'peeling'. Needless to say I was far more careful in future, however just be wary of dosing.

I dont know how big this tank is, but always be precise with your dosing measurements!

Beyond incorrect dosing, low hardness could be a contributing factor. If your water has low alkalinity then it doesn't have the necessary carbonite ions to buffer the water against rapid pH swings (I'm no chemist, but that's my understanding of it. Dont shoot me if I get my carbonate and hydroxide ions mixed up or something wink.gif).

Other things that could effect pH to varyign degrees would be the level of C02 in the tank, the presence of tannic acids from driftwood, accumulation of waste products etc.

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wow, i've never heard of a pH reading that low in a tank. 3.2 is extremely acidic and certainly explains the rapid deaths.

Low calcium hardness is not a cause but adequate buffering does help to prevent such swings. Any natural calcium based substance such as shell grit will help raise calcium hardness but initially you may need a quicker fix. You can get 'hardness up' products at your LFS. You will also need a test kit to keep an eye on it. When they tested your water did they check the kH level?

As for the cause i don't know what might cause such a rapid and extreme drop in pH. pH can drop over time, especially with low kH levels, depending on waste loads, frequency of water changes etc. It's hard to imagine that even really heavy waste loads over long periods would result in pH levels of less than 5 though. And a rapid drop is unusual and suggests another trigger. Some more info about the tank & filter, its occupants/decor & your maintenance regime might be helpful.

Glenn

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Are you confident the gravel/rocks are neutral?

I'm not a big fan of trying to control water chemistry artifically...the ph is only part of the story

I've found the Best setup for softwater fish..

River gravel

50% rainwater with each weekly (25%) water change..other 50% aged for a week in a bucket with peat and Tropical almond leaves.

Plenty of plants...seems floating plants work well (Thanks Dean!)

Driftwood.

small amount of peat in filter media.

This gives soft acid water...ph 6 to 6.5

I've found that if I don't add the rainwater....ph doesn't change much but hardness increases and the fish stop breeding or eggs fail to hatch.

I've just purchased a diverter that is installed in the downpipe to collect rainwater and I'm going to experiment with a water softing resin MUTACAL from Age of Aquariums

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Ok. My tank. New setup about 3 weeks old. River sand as substrate. One piece of wood, enough to give a slightly tannin look. 2 pieces of sandstone previously in a tank with a consist ph of 8.2. Some java moss. Spong filter and normal heater.

I water change with tap water (ph7.3) and treat the water with aquastar. The river sand was also in the previous tank which had ph of 8.3.

My other tank is fine no problems at all, set up exactly the same.

Adam

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Alright just as a side note the tank next to this (the one i set up same day etc.) Almost the same conditions, only I didnt put as much stuff in the water is at ph 7.4.

Im very confused, ive never had problems before with pH this low. Id like to put a post forwarded from apistogramma.com by Mike Wise in regards to my pH and see what people think.

"Graham Rowe, another Sydney resident long ago (late 70s), told me he used part coral sand in his apisto tanks. The water was so soft that many of his fish developed bent spines. I always thought that bone calcium was only from food, but it worked for him. Your water must have very low KH, allowing for wide swings in pH with only small additions of acid (whether added or produced naturally by the biological processes going on in your tank. I will bet that your water is naturally acid, and the local water department adds a base like (NaOH) to the water. They do this to raise the pH so it will not corrode the water pipes. That's what they do here in Denver. This is not a good buffer so the water quickly reverts back to its acid condition."

Can anyone support this statement.

Adam

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Shoalwater down here regularly add buffers to the local tap water as the catchment is soft and corrosion can be an issue. Acidic soft water is reasonably unstable and must be regularly maintained (ask any discus breeder) to prevent sudden drops in ph. My 'Rio Orinoco' tank has new wood which is constantly leaching tannins and drops the tap water (ph7.7) to ph 6.5 within days of a water change. Things got so critical I had to add a little shell-grit to the substrate to keep the kh up therfore stabilising the ph. The water still reads a low gh. confused.gif

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I am using too previously used filters. I checked the kH and it was unreadable. This could contribute to the problem. Im adding supplements now and as of today was a suitable readout in both kH and pH. Now I wanna have some fine tuning before actually adding anything.

Adam

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