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is it worth continuing to keep african cichlids


Melb-Hitachi

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my tank is a juwel rio 180 (50 gallon)

it's around 6 years old

in it I have:

>3 electric yellows

>2 rusties

>1 yellow tail acei

>1 redtailshark

>1 golden sucking loach

>1 flying fox catfish

im in a dilemma now where I don't know whether to continue keeping Africans or not, because before I got the Africans I use to have convicts firemouths kribensis jewel cichlids and it was chaos, I had the rts loach and flying fox with them which makes each of them around 4-6 years old and pretty much I wanted to start fresh. I wanted to try something new and it was Africans but I couldn't get rid of the loach shark and fox simply because they had been with me for so long and I can't find anyone to give it to that I know and plus I can't afford to start another tank, lfs told me they should be able to handle the cichlid aggression which is true because each of them can be aggressive, the only one I could see dying is the flying fox as my rts and loach use to have some pretty fierce battles with my convicts, it was not nice, even now my rts and loach chase the others. when I just had my rts fox and loach the ph was around 6.8 which is my tap water and knew that it was too low to keep them. I needed something to up the ph and my lfs recommended me to get midnight black gravel because it raises the ph, easy to clean and darkness will bring out the colours so I got sucked in, I wanted sand but was told it is very hard to look after and clean it simply because you can't suck it with a sifon so I went ahead and bought it. I basically got my ph to around 7.4-7.6 which was were it was good enough to house my original fish and Africans, mind you when I got most of the Africans they were In ph 7. I have planned on getting more cichlids which I did I had 4 rusties and 2 electric blues but they died, not to mention all of my java ferns from the previous setup have all rotted away when I was told that they were indestructible and could handle ph upwards of 8.2. pretty much now I'm sick of the midnight black gravel and with rotted java ferns and now a baron looking tank with stressed cichlids unable to hide I'm in a massive dilemma, I want to keep Africans but my mum who is part of fish keeping keeps telling me should have left things alone and never attempted this and I have so many doubts and regrets and feel like a total d***head, I don't want to get guppies etc because been there done that there boring, same as tetras etc. I'm afraid I need to start again but I seriously need good advice on where to go from here.

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I'm only new myself to Africans, I've been a marine setup guy for a long time. Don't give up on these beautiful cichlids! Most people have a trial and error stage and we all learn differently! I've never had live plants with my Africans, only plastic fake stuff. Your ph sound ok for Africans maybe something else is the cause of your troubles. I'm not here to give advise but I know there are some fantastic knolageable people on here that can help you out. Don't be discouraged by your experiance! Good luck and keep checking back here as there are some great people here that can help you. ?

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Hi M-H

by your user name and water pH I'm guessing your in Melb

there are a couple of questions you need to look at and only you can answer them

1.)

what fish do you really like and want to keep ?

2.)

do you want to breed or just have display tank

3.)

do they have to be high coloured

the tank is 100cm long but only has a 41cm width so not a very large footprint and this

is important for your stocking list

you say the RT shark, Loach and Flying fox must stay so this means everything else

must be compatible

you didn't like the protective features of substrate spawning cichlids because of the

aggression which is normal breeding and spawn protection, there are exceptions to the

degree of aggression and have any spawning structure at one end of the tank to minimise

the area of spawn protection for other residents

so you need to look at mouth brooding and/or low aggression egg layers if you want to keep

cichlids with the 3 amigos

they need to be suitable to water conditions from 6.8 - 7.8 pH to reduce water parameter

adjusting this can be done by adding extra crushed coral to the sand or gravel substrate

to help buff pH up for rift lake Africans and adding buffering salts when water changing

to adjust the carbonate levels if going to the higher end as this helps stabilise the water

so you don't get pH drops

local Melb produced Aquapics conditioners work well as do more expensive ones like

Seachem

black gravel not appealing is an easy change and can be sold off and changed to a substrate

more to your liking like river sand and or gravel plus mix some crushed coral with it

have a look at some aquascaping pages as plenty come up on Google

if you suck some sand up doing syphoning don't stress you can always add more back into the

tank to replace it when you feel like it

killing Java fern is not normal but will happen if you try planting it in the gravel as it feeds by

it's roots being aerial so it needs to be tied to some wood or rock that it can attach to

plant something simple like Val but be prepared to replant if your fish dig or like chewing

on any plants use river pebbles around the plants to deter digging

also there are some good silk plants available .... I use the Aqua One

if you decide to keep African, American or non cichlid do it because it's what you want

some suggestions to help you hopefully

Americans low end pH

Angels - varied colours, grow to a size fitting with the aquarium dimensions, not aggressive

Rams - varied colours, may be smaller than required focal size required, not aggressive

Bolivian butterfly - not as bright as other species, may be smaller than required focal size

required, not aggressive

Discus - varied colours, tank may become too small eventually, not aggressive but will develop

a pecking order

Geophagus steindachneri - red hump - mouth brooder polygamist, will dig, min tank size, group of 1M 4-6F

will chase each other around the tank

can include cory catfish and L catfish also

African 7.4+ Ph

Malawi male display tank mixed Mbuna (electric yellow, maingano, pulpicans, hongi, zebra varients,

polit, etc), Aulonacara (peacocks), Haplochromis (Taiwan reef, kadango, mbamba, Electra,

moori, placidichromis varients, lethrinops)

Tanganyikan will accept around 7.8pH Alto (calvus, compressiceps). Shell dwellers (multifacsiatus,

ocellatus, brevis, caudopunctatus, cylindricus). Leptosoma (malasa, utinta but may get harassed by

3 amigos)

Non cichlid neutral pH

Australian/New Guinea rainbows (salmon red, bosmani, lacustris, etc), Congo tetras (large, colourful

and schooling)

will also mix with low pH Americans

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Link2hell has given you the total sum of your situation.

A good place to start your base knowledge is in classification/identification books.

You will find entire varieties of species and families which are listed together coming from each origin under separate headings.

Having same origins under headings will give you selection based on those origin water requirements.

There is a little fudging you can get away with,,, like Malawi together with tangs in some instances,,,,, but severe differences in conditions isn't just one problem,,, but temperaments in the fish don't match either.

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Link2hell your answer you gave me I cannot believe the amount of detail you have given me, big thankyou man and also yer I'm from Melbourne. also I joined recently so I'm new :).

basically I want to go full steam ahead with Africans but I want to make sure I take the right steps to look after them. i'll get back to you from what happens next

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yer I'm going into the African cichlid direction, it was a tough call about the substrate as I was leaning towards sand but again more people carried on about its difficulty and how you need to keep it clean etc, thing was there was no other way to keep the ph high enough if I just took the midnight black out. I spoke to the lfs and they said to get dark brown gravel and mix it, I had my doubts but I put some in to mix it and it's pretty good as the brown pretty much hides it and it should be enough to keep it high. mabe add some texas holey rock or something later on. ill keep posted as I'm starting to rearrange gravel etc and focus on rocks and maybe a few new plants such as java ferns or amazon swords to add some colour, both are hardy enough I have been told. i'll keep posted be free to ask me any questions or share your opinion/advice with me, it would be appreciated :D

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If i were you i wouldnt be using plants in a malawian tank. To me at least they just dont fit. Its not true to the habitat. (but i have seen a super epic looking frontosa tank that was full of java fern, looked wrong but amazing) When i started up my first tank, i used java fern and it just rotted away.

What Africans were you going after? Lake Malawi? Lake Tanganyika? West African riverine?

I'd advise not mixing the different Lakes, even if the water is similar. (definitely dont mix riverines with lake fish, they come from 2 different habitats entirely.)

Also, just do TONNE of reading, get a good background knowledge and idea on fish keeping and the principles behind it.

Im more of a naturalist, and believe from first hand experience and from lots of reading, that fish do better when they are kept in an environment as similar as possible to the wild. If you try to take this attitude from the very start, it will help prepare you for more challenging but rewarding species in the future if you wish to go down those paths, such as sensitive tanganyikan sandsifters, blackwater apistogramma and other dwarfes, tropheus and petros or fronts and im sure there are difficult but beautiful mbuna/alounacara's :) (im a tang and SA guy, but really wanna get some sexy alounacaras!!!)

I would also steer clear of advice from people that dont have experience, or people that are deliberately trying to sell you something!

Oh, and dont be afraid to ask "stupid" questions, we all start somewhere

Cheers,

Cody

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thanks cooder,

don't worry about the shark getting picked on, his a bully so to the golden b**tard loach mind you both give it to the acei,

ok so in my tank the Africans I have are:

3 electric yellows

1 acei

2 rusties

question is I'm not sure which way to go down as in how I can build on this community, I'm looking preferably for good colouration but at the same time isn't aggressive like an auratus or kenyi cichlid which I have seen are very nasty critters. also I cant get a red zebra because red tailed sharks and other red colours don't mix well. please feel free to suggest ideas to me. mind you I'm still fixing up my tank and future photos may be uploaded, please let loose with responses to stocking suggestions :)

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Also your red zebras may cross breed with your yellows and the red zebras I've seen are more yellow than red . Maybe add a few more yellows, maybe come cobalt blue zebras for a pale blue colour

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ok guys bought a couple aceis today similar size to the one I have because the golden catfish mofo kept chasing it so I got some companions but they seem to want to fight but I think it's calmed down, ill check next few days to see if everythings all right so stocking update

3 electric yellows

3 aceis

2 rusties (one is probably going to die soon from injury)

1 golden catfish

1 clown loach (forgot to mention that I had one, his a survivor use to be in a group of 4 who all got the skinny disease unfortunately, him and the shark chill together otherwise seems happy by himself)

1 red tail shark

1 flying fox also a survivor

so I'm looking to add another species group as the rusties are quite small and one just looks like it wants to die soon because of the other one, nothing I can really do so ill have one rusty left but I don't know if I want to get another rusty, what cichlids will get on with the others?

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I heard that melanochromis cyaneorhabdos are generally one of the most aggressive mbuna cichlids out there. as colourful as they look I don't think it will be the best idea I mean id consider it but id want to look at other options first, thanks for your suggestion, do you have any others

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