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Gasping Fish


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</DIV><H1>Gasping Fish </H1><DIV id=Qtextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Madjak</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi all...

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I've just setup my first tang tank and this is what I've done:

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it's a 2x2x14 tank so thats about 110 liters when full

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1. cleaned the tank, put the sand (rinsed lots of times) added water from my standard tropical tank to about 60%. I then add the remainder as fresh tap water then added the salts as discribed on the Sydney Cichlid Forum.

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2. I cleaned (scrubed and soaked) some nice limestone rocks and put them in the tank. Some of these from my parents place, some from outside my house.

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3. I ran the tank like that for about 1 week, with a sponge filter in it.

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4. Before I went to get the fish, I put a sponge filter I've been running in another tank (for about 4 weeks) in the tank. I then went and got 6 Leleupi's and 3 multis and let them float in the tank, and adjust properly. (the multi's will go in another tank once thats setup)

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A day later the fish are all very lathargic and not eating much. I did a 25% water cahnge (sucked up some of the food that wasn't eaten)

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The next day (this morning) two of the leleupi's started to gulp quickly, the rest seem to be be breathing very quickly but not as bad as the other two. I was a bit concerned so I put another airstone in the tank. There is heaps of air in there now so it shouldn't be a problem. The temp of the tank was 27deg.

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I checked them at lunch and now all are gulping pretty badly... the multi's seam to be unaffected. I took some water to my lfs, and everything checked out fine (pH at 7.8, nitrates/nitrites none, amonia - a little, hardness fine). the amonia in the water is probably due to the food that wasn't eaten yesterday.

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So I went back home, took out the rocks (maybe some toxins on them?), added a bigger airstone (heaps of air now), and changed some more water about 40%. They were still gulping after 20mins of watching them.

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Does anyone have any ideas, I'm getting desperate!!! They aren't looking very happy.

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thanks

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Rick

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</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>Two things perhaps, the first is temperature and surface agitiation, you mention air stones, this is good providing it is disturbing the majority of the water surface vigorously as warmer temps can deplete the dissolved oxygen in water and agitation allows for a gas exchange at the surface. Check the temp (26-27 degrees) and the amount of surface agitation ( Sometimes the airstone can be too fine and not really stir up the surface)

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Secondly you mention Ammonia, even small readable amounts can affect fish particularly tangs, I doubt your food would have had time to break down into ammonia, if it has you are leaving it there too long, syphon the excess out daily.....I hope this helps

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</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Madjak</STRONG><BR><BR>I also removed the covers of the tank this afternoon hoping to alow more air movement across the water surface and to cool the tank a bit... The airstone is really moving the surface well as I have the filter pushing it in one direction and the airstone on the other side of the tank moving it back.

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I really don't think it's lack of oxygen. Is there anything else that can make the fish really gulp?

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And the amonia may have come from the water in my other tank? The guy at the lfs said there was only a small amount in there. I have been doing water changes and I've been planning to do them every few days until the tank stabalized.

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Thanks for your help,

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Rick

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</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>"Guy at lfs" should have known that tangs tolerate NO AMMONIA, try some zeolite or similar ammonia removers in your filter, mind you have you cycled the tank? Are you aging the tap water, oooh so many questions

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</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Madjak</STRONG><BR><BR>ok he suggested I might try some ammonirite or something (con't remember the name) that removes ammonia and nitrates. I really hate using that sort of stuff, so I put 3/4 of the dose in just before I did that larger water change at lunchtime.

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I'm aging all the tap water I put in. I add the dechlorinater/ager in the bucket, fill it up, add the required amounts of tang salts/buffer and let it sit for 5 mins. Then pour it in.

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I'm relatively new to all this so I'm hope I'm doing it all right. Shout it if I'm not cause I'd really appreciate knowing.

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Thanks for you help

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Rick

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</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>Large water changes can sometimes be detrimental especially in newly cycled tanks, however you should have exported the ammonia, unless there is still something in your tank creating it (like a dead fish) without actually seeing your tank/setup it can be difficult to advise, it sounds like your are preparing your water correctly, what ph is your tapwater?

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</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Madjak</STRONG><BR><BR>There are no dead fish in there... The tank is basically bare except for the filter, heater, sand and fish

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The pH from the tap here is 7.2 though I'm not sure what the hardness is (I think it's quite soft)

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I have no idea what could be causeing the problem... I spose I just need to wait now and see if what I've done is enough.

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I'm suspecting some sort of contaiminate in the rocks I put in there.

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Thanks for your help

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Rick

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BengaBoy</STRONG><BR><BR>hi Rick

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1. i dont think your tank was cycled. There was nothing to feed the bacteria for the week the water was in there. and depending on the other tank the four week sponge might not have had enough good bacteria. I say this because you should have zero ammonia. and imho zero nitrate indicates an uncycled tank.

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2. Perth limestone from ?? Beware limestone used in walls, houses etc around Perth may well be reconstituted limestone, not natural limestone IE it may be limestone dust reconstituted and bonded with concrete - so you did well to get the rocks out.

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1. try some Sera Nitrevec to get the good bacteria going.

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2. try some Geo Liquid to help get a healthy tank.

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3.which lfs is advising you? email me if you want to discuss Perth lfs's

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4. how big are the fish?

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5. is your thermometer correct? (They aren't always u know) It has been sticking hot today in Perth. Get in the habit of touching your tank with your hand - you will know straight away if it is abnormal.

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