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Substrate necessary?


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I've been thinking of removing my substrate to make it easier to keep clean but won't if this may be an issue for the inhabitants. Is the substrate beneficial other than providing bacterial growth? Do fish seem more comfortable with substrate to dig and scavenge in? The inhabitants of the tank in question are a couple of large oscars, pike, silver dollars, black ghost knife and a salmontail catfish. Does anyone else keep CA/SA cichlids in bare bottom tanks?

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Gday Pride,

Just for the sake of a reply.. my jaguar would be bored with no gravel cause if he's not beating up apple snails he's excavating. Though your oscars arent alone or big diggers so its not an issue.

I suppose no gravel means a white bottomed tank so It'll be brighter, but you have one albino and one tiger so I dunno if thats good or bad for the colours!

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I find that its an incredible easier task to clean a bare bottomed tank. I had a few oscars in a 4ft tank, bare bottom, and the poo just seemed to collect in one particular spot. Just siphon it out and its as easy as breeding convicts.

It depends on whether you want aesthetic looks or if you dont care how it looks, then IMO go barebottomed.

I find that wastes just accumulate too much too fast in gravel with big fish like yours.

On the contrary, you will find that the BGK will be even more timid w/o gravel. You will need to provide hiding spot for him.

Salmon tails are pretty much fish which dont really care. they are always on the move and are so active, flipping their big caudal fins side to side, often hitting the gravel and having debri flying up from within.

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laugh.gif @ Paul, your response got the ball moving..

cheers all for your replies!

I think I'll remove the gravel out in stages and see how it goes. I'm looking forward to eliminating the amount of bucket loads I usually use when vaccuming through the gravel and being able to do my water changes using the pump more often thumbup.gif

My BGK should hopefully be okay as I have lots of root type driftwood in the tank which he takes shelter in. I'm sure the salmontail wouldn't mind either, no more swallowing mouthfulls of gravel when scooping up scraps on the bottom...I've never seen it spit the stuff out again when it does this?

Thanks again.

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I ended removing the gravel and I'm happy I did. Makes the tank look so much deeper too. It was amusing watching the silver dollars get used to it. They would swim along the bottom with their head angled down as if trying to swim through the glass bottom.

nice festae and jag Jason!

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i thought it better to show an example of how much easier it is to keep thier tanks clean using this method.if asthetics concerns you i thoguht about slating the bottom of the tank that way you have a pleasing tank substrate and its still easy to clean.im thinking of moving soon and when i do thats the way im going to go.at the moment it would be to much hassle to move it but if your already settled thenits an option

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It was amusing watching the silver dollars get used to it. They would swim along the bottom with their head angled down as if trying to swim through the glass bottom.

maybe they didn't like the other silver $'s you put in the tank [reflection] LOL.gif

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Hi Pride

i stopped useing gravel in most of my tanks awhile ago and depending on filtration in the tank i find i dont get a buildup of poop on the bottom what i put this down too is the fact the fish swiming around in it stir it up all the time till it gets sucked up by the filtration thumbup.gif less work for me i only have to clean filter not gravel

cheers Cal

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yeah I've already notice poop building up in the one corner so when I do my routine clean I'll just quickly suck up that little spot with a hose then let the pump take out the remainder of the water change. I think it looks good too.

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The slating and painting both look like good options. You can also add a very thin layer of fine sand (0.5 cm) this cant be moved about (much) and makes for easy cleaning.

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Ok, maybe my set-up is a little different to what is being done on others, but I'm now confused.

I've got 2 large oscars in a 4' tank with an 802 powerhead that has the mechanical filter on the bottom of it (you know the type). This is a temporary home for them until I get the 6'er up & running. I have the venturi pipe hooked up to the powerhead for fresh air into the tank. It's not that I'm too stingy to pay for an air pump (I have plenty to choose from), but using the venturi is far simpler.

I have about 1" of gravel in the bottom that came with the tank when I got it. I thought this would be where my denitrifying bacteria would be living?

I clean the filter wool on the bottom of the p/h 2 or 3 times a week. I don't see how I would be getting a sufficient amount of denitrifying bacteria living in this wool or on the cartridge that I wrap it around due to, first of all, surface area (which becomes zero when I actually change the dirty wool) &, secondly, I literally blast it with cold tap water to clean it.

The Oscars have been living in this tank for nearly 6 months like this so, obviously, I'm doing something right. Now, I'm just not sure what.

I'm not thinking of removing my substrate, but I'm now confused as I thought, at least with my set-up, that this would be where the denitrifyting bacteria is living.

Please explain.

Troy.

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Hi Troy,

I wouldn't clean it 2/3 times a week or blast it with cold water. Just clean it with some tank water in a bucket. That way you maintain the bacteria.

Your oscares are forgiving! smile.gif

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I'm not thinking of removing my substrate, but I'm now confused as I thought, at least with my set-up, that this would be where the denitrifyting bacteria is living.

Please explain.

Troy.

Troy you are right in what you are saying in your case.But you will find most people who are using no substrate are running external filtration as in my two tanks I have a 2ft Bio/sump and a 2217 C/F on the 3'x2'x2'=300L and two 2217 on the 2'x2'x2'=200L one full of matrix/bio.

So because of the high level of bacteria that will be found in both filter systems I do not need substrate.The only advantage in not using it is its easy to clean.

I will be adding substrate to my 3' tank as soon as I find the one I am looking for.IMO I think bottom dwellers would like it a lot better with it then with out looks more natural as well.

My 2' tank is only for pumping endi's so needs to be cleaned a lot.

hope thats helps

Rat

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Fish that like turning over the substrate, particularly sand sifters, would benefit from a substrate. But the fish you are talking about should be fine without. I paint all the outside bottoms with black paint as I don’t want that big white bottom at the end of a hole for every hole dug, and I guess if I ever took my substrate out, it would look better, and probably make the fish more at ease over a dark bottom than the stark white of polystyrene under the glass.

Nitrifying bacteria live on ALL surfaces, glass walls, rocks/gravel etc, but only where they can have access to oxygen. If a tank has an under gravel filter, then pretty much the entire gravel depth will be oxygenated, and will have an impact on the biological filtration of the tank.

If it is just a substrate sitting on the bottom of the tank, then it will be only the first bit with access to oxygen that will provide a surface area for bacteria, so though will provide a home for bacteria, the same surface area can be provided with biological media in a filter. So taking it out probably won’t have that much of an impact.

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Thanks fellas.

I wouldn't clean it 2/3 times a week or blast it with cold water. Just clean it with some tank water in a bucket. That way you maintain the bacteria.

Your oscares are forgiving! smile.gif

I'm not sure if the volume of water is sufficient enough to support 2 large Oscars & keep th pH level up as well which is why I change the water 2-3 times per week. The fish seem happier. Yes, I have tested the pH.

Please note, that it is only the cartridge on the bottom of the powerhead that I blast with cold water & not the substrate. The substrate I clean with the standard gravel cleaner. It works out to about a 50% water change. The new water is already heated to 27 degrees.

you will find most people who are using no substrate are running external filtration as in my two tanks I have a 2ft Bio/sump and a 2217 C/F on the 3'x2'x2'=300L and two 2217 on the 2'x2'x2'=200L one full of matrix/bio.

That's what I thought was happening but I wasn't sure. In my case, when the Oscars get to their next home, they will have the traditional sump for filtration.

Troy.

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