Slate/Rocks in tank

[Teamsherman]

Hi folks,

Well I now have my display tank at the stage where I can now furnish it with the rocks and coral that I will be using in it. What I'm wanting to know is for all you guys that use heavier rocks or slate for the base of the rocks are you putting anything soft like foam ect directly underneath the slate or rocks to keep the base off the glass?

I know why foam is used underneath tanks cause just the smallest of gravel piece can cause the glass to crack or shatter from the weight of the water so it gets me thinking that if there is any bits of gravel under the rock base it could end up just like the piece underneath the tank.

So literally the piece of rock I want to put in there that has a slate base cemented to it so it doesn't fall over in the tank is 4.6kg.

Will I need to use some sort of cushion underneath it or will it be ok with the slate directly resting on the glass?

I know some may say that the rock could just sit on the gravel but I would prefer it directly on the glass so it is kept level at all times.

I look forward to your replies and I have also attached a picture of the rock/coral that I am talking about.

Cheers,

Alan.

[Chuckmeister]

I'd just put down a cm of substrate down under the rock, place your rock firmly on it and then continue to fill your tank with the substrate (assuming your are putting in a decent bed of it. Personally I dont like anything touching the glass but thats really just a pet thing I have.

Realistically a flat base like that is perfectly fine sitting on the glass as well. I've had some pretty large lumps of limestone sitting on glass before and never had any issues but I prefer it to be off the glass normally.

[CThompson]

Hi,

If what you are putting in your tank is what you have posted above in your picture, I wouldn't be too fussed about its weight. Think I saw another thread by you and the coral you showed in your pictures there all look light enough to be a non-issue weight wise. The bigger issue if I were to choose would be the piece of coral above falling and scratching a viewing panel in its fall. The slate if attached to the base of the coral will help to prevent a fall.

Foam under a tank is more used to even out and level anything that could cause a tank uneven pressure to its base. More so construction-wise of the stand under the tank, but also potentially an uneven/level/twisted floor surface transferring this imperfection through to the stand and then the glass of the tank. The example you used in regards to a piece of gravel trapped between the glass base and the stand (which could happen, as well as a protruding staple/nail), and a piece of gravel sandwiched between the inside glass surface and a rock etc. is only valid if the rock passing its weight through the individual piece of gravel to the inside surface of the glass base, if the rock/coral has a big enough weight in comparison to the thickness of the glass.

4.6 kg is a bit of weight, and though the attached slate is a good idea stabilisation wise, it will also spread the weight across a boarder surface than the base of the coral by itself would. There may be more to worry about if a single piece of gravel got between the slate and the glass surface. Which is probably more where your question is aimed at. Remember, 4.6 kg out of water is not 4.6 kg underwater, so I expect you have nothing to worry about. Didn't your other post show this coral sitting in the empty tank? Did the glass break? It is good to consider potential problems, but you might be over thinking this one as I don't think you have anything to worry about here.

When the tank is 3/4 full of water, and your gravel is in there, put your coral in and make sure there is a base of gravel between the base of the slate and the tank's glass. This will spread the <4.6kg of coral's weight across the glass/base.

When there is some real weight pressing directly on the inside tank's glass, I have used cured silicon "worms" to rest the rocks weight on to protect the glass. Do a search for my tank's pics, the photos will be from a few years back (I expect they are still here), but there was and is, near something like 1.0 tonne and it has not cracked the glass yet.

Regards,

Craig

[Teamsherman]

Hi,

If what you are putting in your tank is what you have posted above in your picture, I wouldn't be too fussed about its weight. Think I saw another thread by you and the coral you showed in your pictures there all look light enough to be a non-issue weight wise. The bigger issue if I were to choose would be the piece of coral above falling and scratching a viewing panel in its fall. The slate if attached to the base of the coral will help to prevent a fall.

Foam under a tank is more used to even out and level anything that could cause a tank uneven pressure to its base. More so construction-wise of the stand under the tank, but also potentially an uneven/level/twisted floor surface transferring this imperfection through to the stand and then the glass of the tank. The example you used in regards to a piece of gravel trapped between the glass base and the stand (which could happen, as well as a protruding staple/nail), and a piece of gravel sandwiched between the inside glass surface and a rock etc. is only valid if the rock passing its weight through the individual piece of gravel to the inside surface of the glass base, if the rock/coral has a big enough weight in comparison to the thickness of the glass.

4.6 kg is a bit of weight, and though the attached slate is a good idea stabilisation wise, it will also spread the weight across a boarder surface than the base of the coral by itself would. There may be more to worry about if a single piece of gravel got between the slate and the glass surface. Which is probably more where your question is aimed at. Remember, 4.6 kg out of water is not 4.6 kg underwater, so I expect you have nothing to worry about. Didn't your other post show this coral sitting in the empty tank? Did the glass break? It is good to consider potential problems, but you might be over thinking this one as I don't think you have anything to worry about here.

When the tank is 3/4 full of water, and your gravel is in there, put your coral in and make sure there is a base of gravel between the base of the slate and the tank's glass. This will spread the <4.6kg of coral's weight across the glass/base.

When there is some real weight pressing directly on the inside tank's glass, I have used cured silicon "worms" to rest the rocks weight on to protect the glass. Do a search for my tank's pics, the photos will be from a few years back (I expect they are still here), but there was and is, near something like 1.0 tonne and it has not cracked the glass yet.

Regards,

Craig

Nailed it.

Thanks mate!

And seeing as no one has read my other post I'll ask here too see if anyone would position the coral in a different order as to what it is in now.

Also bare in mind that I will be having a few bits of driftwood between the coral structures.

[Teamsherman]

Also, can anyone suggest some hardy live plants that I may be able to have in there with the fish I'll be keeping?

They will all be Lake Malawi species and the plants I intend to keep will be ones that are established on driftwood already.

And for lighting I will be using a 4 foot Blue/White LED style.

[Chuckmeister]

I'd stick the big piece in the middle. I think it draws your eyes away out of the tank, on the left like you have it.

I'm not sure you'll have luck with any plants and malawi fish. You could try the usual hardy plants like Java fern and vallis. Stick a little in and see how it goes.

[Buccal]

With that slate base, you could put 5-6 little dolops of silicone to the underside of slate to the outer edges and place lightly where it has to go.

Later to remove, put a single Stanley knife blade on its flat to bottom of aquarium and push through the little silicone bits.

Narrow leaf java is a hardy attractive plant that grows well in correct conditions.

Some Cichlid types will eat such plants faster than it can recover,,, sometimes it can be over come by feeding mainly sera-flora and starting out with a lot of plant mass.

Try to meet the requirements of the plants the bet you can, so it rejuvenates fast enough.

It can surprising with what species have a go at plants.

I had Stigmatochromis woodi rip up to bits java fern,, but I don't think they were eating it.

[CThompson]

I expect that it is not so much that no one has read your other thread but more that no one has replied to such an intangible, individually subjective question regarding your decor's positioning. You say that no one has replied, that's maybe a reply that says no one wants to hurt your feelings . I would suggest that you try something a little less artificial than three separate piles

But for me, in an African tank, subjectively; Coral+wood = ! Coral+wood+plants = !!

I have said in he past on ACE, ages back now; "just because you can, does not mean you should" (I need a stepping down from a soap-box Smiley)

Me, personally I wouldn't even use coral pieces. Fresh water fish have not evolved around sharp things = they won't understand their danger. I used to know a fish keeper who pointed out an electric yellow that for a 2nd or 3rd time got stuck in a piece of coral. He said words to the effect; " it was the 3rd (?) time it has gotten stuck, once it dug a hole in its side, stupid fish!"

If you want to buff you water, use coral/limestone sand. And if you want to buff your water, don't use wood. Rock by itself or rock and plants.

In regards to the light question, if it was indeed a question and not a statement (question mark Nazi), plants use the red and blue light from the spectrum, roughly in equal amounts. The rest of the colours are not really needed, especially green. What sort of spectrum of light does your light produce? Blue & red, in decent, equal amounts? If not, either forget the plants as they will at best cause you to pull your hair out. Or change the lights.

If you want décor positioning suggestions, post some pics showing different organisations and ask which people prefer.

For aqua scaping tips go to the king, Takahashi Amano;

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=takashi+amano+gallery&sa=X&biw=1680&bih=877&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0CBwQsARqFQoTCPjapYHyqMgCFaNrcgodudIG0g

I have seen one by him for Africans, maybe it can be found in the link.

That being said, Java fern, Anubis and ribbon grass, are your best bets, with the latter being at least bio typically correct in the lakes river estuaries as I understand it.

Big thanks by the way to the ACE mod/s who organised the in-text-box spell check

Craig

[PlecoSam]

.

[Link2Hell]

Hi Alan

aquascaping is very subjective and personal taste varies

but the main thing is what you like

to me I won't use coral heads as they are very sharp and can

cause damage to a fish that hits it in a moment of panic

I prefer a more natural scape and there are some very good

reference sites you can look at

especially the late Takahashi Amano

it is about placement for the type of fish you have unless it is a

plant tank that is designed for plants and then fish come second

what Malawi are you stocking with ?

Val is common in the lake and is use by D comps, H Oxyrhenchus

and some Lethrinops as their biotope

Acei are found in rocky areas where there are also tree roots and fallen

trees with algae growth

Hardest thing is finding the pieces for the puzzle

Sam +1 here I also like the rule of thirds

[CThompson]

Sam +1, Link2Hell, and CThompson like the rule of thirds (just as with photography)

I didn't know Takahashi Amano was dead?

"but the main thing is what you like" + what is good for the fish (visa versa)

[Teamsherman]

Hmmm, looks like the coral will be left out now as I didn't really think about the possible damage to the fish from the edges.

I only chose the coral as I wanted something that would standout from the black background and make the pieces pop!

Looks like I may have to sell one of my kidneys and go with the Texas holy rock then. The holy rock will be ok with Malawis will it?

I've always planned on using the crushed coral sand as substrate as it's the nicest white substrate I've seen.

[Buccal]

Don't forget that all this new bright white stuff is just temporary till it gets a tanning of algae growth.

Lethrinops and various otopharynx species will turn over fine gravels sands repetitively and keep the substrate fresh looking.

Texas holy Rock can be also a bit treacherous but most people get away with it.

But personally I've never worried to much about abrasion.

Setting up your tank is like choosing your fish,,, what makes you happy and confident with is what's best.

As time goes on and you adhere to malawis (best fish ever), you'll start to look and observe then try to achieve the slice of nature look which is more about balance rather than jamming in intricacy.

I've been gifted living on top of underground limestone cavernous caves with wonderful water flowing through.

The limestone caps around my 4 acre property and surrounding bush about 5 k back from the ocean where the shoreline use to be thousands of years ago.

But more average limestone pieces is more natural, looking for cupping and curls to give volume to rock dwellers territory.

Rocks staying bunched up creating open substrate areas for the much needed room of most colorful displaying haps and mbuna in later in life sizes.

The perfect Malawi tank is usually show casing the stunning fish in front of a natural boring looking habitat.

But not really boring habitat if balance is achieved.

Personally I wouldn't incorporate timbers, but if java is wanted then small tiny pieces of inert stone to strapp it to and anchor.

Add a small size power head to keep heavy surface aggetation going.

Seachem rift lake buffer to bring KH GH to at least minimum of 12,,, work out how much used to initially treat tank then divide by three which will give you amount needed to add every time after you do a 30% water change.

This will give the fish optimal conditions,,,, so if this is what you want for your fish, then work out which plants tolerate these conditions if plants are wanted.

I kept narrow leaf java no probs in above conditions,

But I must say, the Malawi cichlids are so diverse and colorful (given correct conditions), that satisfaction comes purely out of the fish alone.

I think in a lot of circumstances malawis get underrated very easily because of simple water chemistry is not correct for the fish.

But it's so simple,,, stable water chemistry having KH at least of 10 to 13 will take you there.

[CThompson]

Hi again,

Don’t mean to change all your desires but I am pleased that you are taking them with the good intentions I have made them.

Texas holy rock should be okay from the point of view of danger to the fish. However…from a “puritan’s” approach – would this rock-form be found underwater? Bear in mind the natural processes that have created it. I like the look of this rock too, but I personally, would never use it in a tank for the above reason. I know it is used a lot. Once again, this is “my subjective" opinion. If you like it, use it, but as Buccal (liked your above comments/post by the way Buccal), it won’t stay white. I have used sandstone (from my own backyard) broken with a hammer and stone chisel, and basalt bought from a quarry down the south coast from me. The sandstone goes green/black with algae, the basalt.. stays pretty much as it is over time. Cost = cheap to free so you can keep your kidney . Mind you, both can be heavy, particularly the basalt, which is where I came up with the idea of cured silicon "worms" - which takes it back to the question/answer from the top of this thread

Why do you want a something to “pop” from the background? Don’t we keep a fish tank for “fish”?

Remembering too, a down side of a white substrate can be it causing a fish to flush its colours possibly to try and match its background so it doesn’t stand out so much to predators (flying birds, or bigger fish swimming 10m above them). In some cases, this might make the fish look better, in others, not so much so.

I use coral and or limestone sand too, but I use it in sumps or inside the canister filters for its buffering. Normal "brown" or "honey" coloured, or black 1-3mm sand/gravel is used in the tanks. In my fishroom, I have painted the bottom outside of the tanks with black paint, and coral sand and rubble is in the sump.

Craig

[luis]

My turn:

1. I wouldn't worry about 4.6kg at all. I have a 3.8kg piece piled on top of a few other lighter pieces with no problem in a 3ft tank. If you are still worried about this have a look at this video, I expect it will put your mind at ease.

2. For me it's directly on the glass or nowhere at all. My mbuna like to dig and this is the only way to ensure rocks don't move around. Before I did this I had a fish die by digging themselves under a rock until they got stuck. My rocks are uneven so they just rest on whatever 3 points of contact are closes to the glass.

3. I use coral rock in my tank with no issues and I like the look (see this photo—yes the coral rock used to be white). I like the texture of the rock and how the sand gets trapped on the surface of the rock, making it look like someone sprinkled flour all over it. I don't have anything too sharp in there at the moment but used to have one similar to your fan.

4. Go with what makes you happy for your tank decoration. Everybody has different tastes... You can always change it later if your taste changes, as long as you still have kidneys to sell.