New in Melbourne looking for tank advice

[Pennyc]

Hi everyone

Soooooo glad I found this forum.

My son (11 years) and his Dad are in the process of setting up a 4ft African Cichlid tank. It has a sand substrate and is in the process of being hardscaped and getting the water right.

We have been to two aquariums so far and trawled countless youtube videos to see what sort of fish we should stock and I thought I would ask here.

My son LOVES the peacocks and my husband the electric yellows and there was a tangerine coloured fish which I think was a peacock but I could be wrong.

I have read not only do you have to be careful which fish you put together but which order you introduce them into the tank.

Considering the favourite tanks we have seen are highly colourful and bordering on overstocked what fish would you recommend for us? Happy to deal with extra cleaning from having lots of fish. We have an eheim canister filter a heater and all the chemicals and test kits to get started as well. We are building the hardscape from mostly sandstone type rock with some river rock.with lots of hidey holes.

Also we need to replace the tube lighting. The hood as two T5 3 ft tubes (both blown) I have read one white and one blue would be best?

Any and all advice welcome thanks so much

[Buccal]

Hi, if you buy juveniles about 4-5cm then start with 25-30 fish, expect a few to die from random likelys.

If buying larger specimens then 15-20 fish.

The species of your choice would be considered good for your size tank and specie combining.

These are medium size cichlds,,, but all cichlids grow big after many years which means housing 20 fish in a four foot is fine for 2-3 years then you may need to reduce down to 10-12 or so,,, or start again with smaller individuals.

Great seeing first timers aiming to get it right.

[Pennyc]

Thanks so much for the great feedback. Happy to start with the smaller guys it was suggested once tank perimeters are correct but 3 fish in and slowly increase each week so the filter etc doesn't overload. Do you feel this is correct?

Also in Melbourne Whig aquariums are best I have asked to join the classifieds here as I believe members here raise fish to sell and would be happy to support that

[Buccal]

Yes, you have received good advice,, for 3 at a time weekly is best.

Once tank is established,,, 24-27 degrees is the temp range.

But while the maturation process is taking place,,, then 27-28 degrees will make your beneficial bacteria in your filters to flourish at full speed.

Beneficial bacteria in your filters is what your waiting on to multiply and develop.

These BB is what works for you and the fish converting toxic ammonia into toxic nitrite then further converting toxic nitrite into a relatively harmless nitrate, which is harmless through a regime of water changes to keep the nitrates diluted at a low level.

[roosy]

Hi there pennyc if you are still undecided on fish you want head on to keysborough aquarium, might be bit of a drive for u but they have a massive range of fish and just got new shipment in last week so will give you plenty to look at. And meng will give you some fantastic advice on caring for your fish and tank. But watch out this hobby is very addictive and one tank can turn into two then three very quickly so good luck

[Pennyc]

Thanks guys I am in Bayside so a drive to Keysborough is on the weekend is def. on the cards

[kobi]

I Love a Male only peacock display for colour

[Link2Hell]

Hi Penny

have you considered joining an aquarium society

http://www.cichlidpower.org.au/VCS_3/Index.html

some good guys in VCS that can help you

[Pennyc]

Thanks I certainly would consider joining a society once it is up and running.

We have put a couple of rocks in and I tested the water today PH GH and KH all need to come up.

Adding some more sandstone and other rock tonight which I believe should help the PH but how can I raise these levels?

PH is 7.5

GH and KH are both 89.5

It has only been going two days (with sand dechlorinated and conditioned water a couple of pieces of sandstone, filter and heater running) should I wait for the rocks to up the levels or should I add something to get it going?

The lfs seemed to think fish could be added by the weekend does this seem right? Does it not have to cycle first?

[DFishkeeper]

Hi Penny,

There are stages to the cycling of a tank.

First, you need some waste, so adding a small number of fish and feeding them will generate that. The waste initially causes an ammonia spike until beneficial bacteria develop in your filter/s that feed on the ammonia and turn it into nitrites.

You will then have a nitrite spike until different beneficial bacteria also develop in your filter/s that feed on the nitrite, turning it into nitrates, which are far less toxic to fish than ammonia or nitrites.

Nitrate levels are then usually managed through dilution by regular water changes.

So yes, you can add a small number of fish immediately once you are happy with your water parameters, to begin the cycling process.

You will know cycling is complete when you are getting nil readings for ammonia and nitrites, and a small nitrate reading, probably after around 6 weeks.

After cycling is completed, keep in mind that the bacteria levels will mostly be stable at the appropriate level for the amount of available food. In other words, don't ever suddenly add a large number of new fish to a tank, the existing bacteria levels won't be able to cope with the sudden influx of waste and you will get ammonia and nitrite spikes all over again. You need to build fish numbers gradually and allow bacteria levels to grow gradually and adapt to the new stocking level. Always feed lightly for a few days also when adding new fish to minimise waste levels.

Hope I haven't confused you

Cheers, Doug

[Pennyc]

Thanks Doug

I am easily confused but that was fine lol

Yes we wanted to add 3 fish this weekend and increase at about that rate maybe once a week?

Considering the PH GH and KH are on the low side should I buy a buffer to fix this Ammonia nitrite and nitrate are all 0 and temp is 28

[DFishkeeper]

I would wait 2 weeks before adding any more fish, then another 2 weeks, then weekly after that until you reach your desired stocking level.

Once you have fish in the tank, this will affect your PH also and probably bring it down a little. It is a little on the low side currently, so you should probably bring up the KH and GH levels a little, the rise in KH should bring up the PH. The PH is the important reading, KH and GH indicate the capacity of your water to buff your PH level and keep it stable.The important thing to keep in mind is that your PH level doesn't have to be perfect, just stable. Fish can adapt to a less than perfect PH level, but not suddenly. When adding new fish to your tank, it is a good practice to put them in their bag water in a small bucket or tub next to the tank and use a piece of airline tubing to slowly add water from the tank to the tub, enabling them to gradually get used to the tank water.

There are a few good quality salts and buffers on the market made specifically for African Rift Lake cichlid tanks. If you are visiting Keysborough aquarium, perhaps ask them what they recommend.

Cheers, Doug

[Pennyc]

Thanks Doug will do as you suggest

[Ged]

Penny glad to hear that you are enjoying the forum and the advice that you have received.

There are some great LFS in Melbourne. Rayonne Aquarium up in Reservoir is another good one.

Chris's suggestion to join one of the clubs down your way is good way to go once you are set up. They will welcome you and the whole family with open arms.

[Pennyc]

Got some fabulous sandstone rocks and offcuts free from a very generous landscaper today so the other half and the boy will be hardscaping all weekend

[intangcity]

hi Penny welcome to this addictive and sometimes crazy hobby i had a skim through all the posts but one thing i do when buying fish is after you acclimatise your fish and you are ready to put them in your tank i put a net over a bucket and pour the fish from the bag they came in, into the net, then release them just so if there was anything in the water the fish came in it isnt going to get into your tank.

[Chilli Powder]

Hi Penny,

There are some awesome shops...Subscape in Richmond is a must if you want to get ideas on how to scape things. This is a recent scape that one of the guys there (Marcus) did for my cousin. He is also doing a mix Malawi and Tanganyikan tank.

Another club to join is EDAS - Eastern Districts Aquarium Society. www.edas.com.au

Click here for their Facebook Page - which is regularly updated.

They are having a 'car boot' type sale mid July. I think VCS might be having their second fish Auction around that time too but better check.

[Pennyc]

Thanks guys I was at subscape last weekend. Great tanks!

Hubby is aquascaping today I have tested PH it is still quite low (7.4) so we added some powdered carbonate hardness (Aquasonic it says 1tspn per 100lt) we adhered to this dosage but it is still low.

Ah just rang Keysborough Aquarium and they informed me that the buffer does not raise PH (thanks Highett Aquarium lol) so have added 12g of buffer in the last two days but need to raise PH. I am going to add baking soda to raise it keysborough said 1/2 tablespoon for a 180lt tank while PH is at 7.4. Does this seem ok?

We were hoping to add 3 fish today. The ammonia is also at .25 but all that is in the tank is water and rock. When I tested it 3 days ago ammonia was a 0. Seems strange for it to elevate with no bacteria but then I am a novice lol

exciting!

[Chilli Powder]

mmm...ok...the very basic chemistry is that...

Depending on the buffering salts used, they can raise the pH. If you are using Aquasonic then it should also. basically when you raise the alkalinity of the water through carbonate ions it will raise the pH. Just do a quick google search on Carbonate Hardness and General Hardness... i'm sure wikipedia will sort that out for you and then you take the information given and choose the correct one.

I only use SeaChem and I have used everything else on the market. including my own home mix with bi-carb soda. While it is a cheap alternative, my opinion is that it does not stabilise the pH like what a proper buffer should do. Same with the GH salts. You can use a mix of epsom salts and rock salt, and then grab potassium etc etc and mix it all in. I believe there is a recipe on here somewhere. BUT again, how do compete with a global company whose aim is to provide high quality aquarium salts? When you have expensive fish, you don't end up doing the 'short cuts'

Personally, I use the Seachem Rift Lake Salt and Buffers and won't use anything else.

so in your situation, I would continue to use the Aquasonic buffer and if you have room, put some coral rubble in your filter somewhere also

[Pennyc]

Thank you

The people at Keysborough Aquarium aquarium also suggested coral rubble.

We now have 3 electric yellows in the tank yay ! They seem quite happy they gave us some bacteria to add to the tank so hopefully it will cycle over the next 3-4 weeks and we can add some more fish.