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<H1>White spot</H1><DIV id=Qtextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Can anyone tell me where i might find some good info on white spot ? The search engine on here sux more than my bristle nose. Sorry EZboard but it does. Maybe i'm just a moron but i couldn't get anything out of it.

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Anyway, i had a heater problem 2 weeks ago, and changing my substrate on the weekend probably didn't help either but last night i noticed my male P.Taiwan Reef had white spot(i know the disease, had it on some Aulonocara a few years ago) but the LFS was closed and i had no medication at home and no computer to ask you guys for help or home remedies.

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I have always believed it was caused by stress, but if it's a parasite could it attack my other fish next ?

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So, can anyone give any good info on the disease, medication/treatment ? Any info would be appreciated.

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Thanks

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Matt

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Corrimal

<p></P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Molly Man</STRONG><BR><BR>increase the heat to 27-28c

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add some aquarium salt, say about 1 tblsp per 4-8L, perform partial water changes every other day with the salt diluted, maintain this for 10-14 days and hey presto... done...

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110% gaurantee you will get rid of it...

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks for the reply Molly Man.

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So if this parasite has killed one of my fish and i can see another 2 breathing heavily can i assume all my fish are infected ??

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I'm gonna try your treatment method but some stuff i've read today says that once the fish is infected thats it..........game over. The only time to kill it off is during it's reproductive stage after it's done the job on your fish.

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Is this true ? Last time around it killed everything. The fish came from the same shop last time too, is it likely thats where it came from(my Protomelas are new additions and first to die from it).

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Thanks

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Lata

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Matt

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Melbourne Bill</STRONG><BR><BR>Matt

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I agree with Molly Man. Yes probably all of your fish are infected now but NO it is not necessarily a deadly disease.

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I would add rock salt (sodium chloride) to the tank rather than more aquarium salt.

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If the fish are getting too distressed I would also give them individual salt baths. Using rock salt (sodium chloride) and add 10 - 20 grams to a litre of aquarium water in a separate container. Place the fish individually in the bath and leave them for a maximum of 15 minutes - watch the fish to make certain they do not become too distressed and remove the fish when it seems to be losing balance.

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The salt bath strips the mucus coat from the fish and hydrostatically destroys the ich in the skin. After a fish has been in the bath you might see some red specks (of blood) on the surface of the fish where the ich has been removed from.

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I would also add Melafix to the tank to help protect the fish and also combat the Ich.

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The above advice is based on my personal experience and is intended solely for your consideration.

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Bill

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks guys.

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Well, i got home yesterday and most of my fish were breathing very heavily(in both my adault tanks) but no spots yet, so i dosed em up with some salt and turned the temp up to about 29-30degrees(was already at 27). Hopefully they'll all be fine, didn't look any worse this morning anyway.

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Now for my next worry, i stripped 40 odd fry from one of my females on the weekend. Are these fry also likely to have it ?(i'd imagine they would) And how do you think some 1-1.5cm C.borleyi fry will handle the temp increase and the added salt ? Would they be better off with medication or wait and see if any die first ? I really dunno what to do here.........never really raised fry before.

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Any advice is much appreciated

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Thanks

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Matt

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Corrimal

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: nels87</STRONG><BR><BR>When your increasing the temp make sure you provide more oxygen and Yes, It's very likely your fry will also carry the disease. Just go to the LFS and purchase "Rapid White Spot Remedy" - I used it once and 2 days later - HOORAY! DON'T OVERDOSE

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GOOD LUCK!

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Violent. Aggressive. Insanity.

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evilprince57@hotmail.com

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Liverpool - SYDNEY

<br></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>I'd err on the side of overkill, increase temp (and aeration) add the rock salt and dose with Aquapet "Rapid Cure White Spot Remedy" and repeat the three-daily doses four times with a 20% water change between each. Look for clamped fins and lethargy as an early indicator of ich, as these symptons often precede the spots.

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Glad to hear you're 'equipped' now Nels

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If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Geoffargus</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day Matt,

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Here's a little info on your "white spot".

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(Ichthyophthirius multifiliis)

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First its a parasite and should be treated as such.It is not only on your fish but in your tank! The grown parasite lets go of the host and swims around looking for a quite area of water where it can reproduce. It attaches itself to an object and then it encloses itself into a capsule, within which it divides itself into 2 cells then 4 cells and so on until up to a thousand swarmer cells are formed within 8-24hrs.(this will vary with temp.)They then leave the capsule and swim in search of a new host fish! Thats the basic cycle of this little beast.As far as the remedy the above mentioned can work with good success provided the are done with some care. Temp. treatment is above 30 and below 16 deg.C will not sustain this parasite but is stressful with most species. Salt baths are no good unless you are treating the tank also. When you put the fish back a new 1 will take its place. I must say I think that some of the commercial medications are the best with less stress on the fish as I have seen many spawn with medication in the tank but can't recall spawning with heat or salt treatments.

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Remember to remove all carbon from filters before medication.

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I use Promethyasul which is a single dose per week medication or Ichonex a three day course. A week later I do a water change and run some carbon to absorb the meds. and thats it in 99% of all cases. Rarely is a second treatment needed.

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Hope this gives you some understanding of whats going on in your tank!

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good luck!

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cheers

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Geoff...

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<br></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: c2105208</STRONG><BR><BR>I know whenever a post comes up that is regarding white spot I say the same thing butttt.....

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Whenever I get it I go straight for formalin solution... I tried meds/thermal/salt and everything when my discus got stuck with whitespot and in the end after a good few weeks of attempting (and getting worse) only thing that worked was formalin. Ended up having to treat individuals that were worst with a short bath then treat the tank dilute...

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However it is a harsh treatment. I'd suggest the methods above before resorting to this unless u really are experienced because it can be risky and deadly if not done with care..

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Cheers,

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Adam

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks alot everyone, Most my fish seem to be doing Ok so far with a fair amount of salt added to my tanks and a temp of 29. Though i'm sure the medication is gonna be much cheaper than replacing the fish in three tanks so i think some medication is in order too. I really can't afford to be replacing so many fish right now. And i hate seeing them die.........

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I know this is gonna be touchy one, and i promise not to mention any names, but my P.Taiwan Reefs were only 2 weeks old(well i bought them 2 weeks ago), is it likely the white spot came from the LFS ?

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And how long would you guys wait to replace the dead fellas ?

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Thanks again everyone

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Lata

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Matt

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Just an update for anyone interested.

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Tanks are currently at 29 degrees, i added a fare whack of salt last week and treated them with Rapid White Spot remidy on Friday.

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Haven't had much luck, all protomelas are now dead

, down to 4 Auloncara and 1 C.borleyi and they aren't looking too sharp, lots of heavy breathing and scratching of gills going on. My fry tank is very rapidly emptying also. At this rate i should be fishless by the end of this week.

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Will do a water change and add more medication this afternoon but i'm not too hopefull. The little fellas look like crap.

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Fingers crossed there isn't another 1 or 2 dead when i get home today.

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Lata

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Matt

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<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: fiona ls</STRONG><BR><BR>You need to repeat the medication several times. I had some Baaad white spot not long ago, a couple of fish looked like they had been dipped in sugar. I used a malachite green based remedy, at the recommended dose, every two days, four doses. I read that the only time the ich are susceptible is as free swimming larvae, not in the cyst stage, and not when they are on the fish. This regimen cleared up my white spot. Also vacuum your tanks to get up the cysts.

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You need to make sure the parasite is being cleared up by whatever medication you are using, as some can be resistant, if one is not making a difference (give it a couple of repetitions as it won't make them drop off the fish), try a different one, eg. malachite green based if that doesn't work, try formalin based (or the other way around). There is some good web based info out there if you look for it.

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I didn't have much luck with just the temp and the salt. But the medication did the trick, even the sugar dipped ones survived. Although I did lose some before the spots appeared, I didn't realise at that time that you could get ich without the spots.

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Fiona L.S.

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Lalor Park, NSW</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Fiona, yeah only my first fish had actual spots, all the rest have died before getting any.

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Got some more medication today(my tank used nearly a whole bottle.....wasn't expecting that). Will vacuum, water change and re-apply medication when i get home.

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Thanks

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Matt

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<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: fiona ls</STRONG><BR><BR>you might want to make that five doses, I have noticed a few scattered spots appear a few days later (but no ill acting fish) ... am retreating that tank.

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Fiona L.S.

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Lalor Park, NSW</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: E4G13M4N</STRONG><BR><BR>Treatment for white spot that I came across in a article some time ago, medication is not required

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1.. Raise the temp to 28-29c

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2.. Add some sea salt

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3.. Turn off all the lights and place a dark blanket or covering over the tank for 4 or 5 days (cant remember that part

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4.. Feed fish at night useing minimal lighting ??

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White spot is supposed to die off if no light is supplied to complete its cycle..

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Disclaimer:

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I havn't tried this process as yet as i havn't had a case of whitespot for ages..However i do know a couple of people that tried it with good success

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^Mark^

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<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: fiona ls</STRONG><BR><BR>I have never had it before this (at least not that was recognisable?). I have read before that it's present but subclinical in most fish, and shows up when fish stressed, but more recent reading says no, not always present, gets introduced, and able to be eliminated. Can be subclinical also? Probably. Also apparently often infects gills but you don't generally see them unless you look.

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Working on eliminating totally and then get super careful about quarantine (my quarantine was getting less than perfect ... with non fish shop fish anyway ... overconfidence/previous lack of problems I guess).

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Fiona L.S.

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Lalor Park, NSW</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Well none dead yesterday when i got home and my Aulonocaras actually look a bit better than the previous day.

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Also, no more dead fry that i could find so it seems things may be on the up for my fish. Obviously going to continue treatment as per directions/advice.

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Thanks for all the advice.

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Lata

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Matt

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: bimborocks</STRONG><BR><BR>What fiona said is fairly right i think, at least from an aquaculture point of view. i do all the disease checking at work and many diseases are there but in very low numbers and only become a problem or fish show signs of the disease when they become stressed. much like us i guess, we become more likely to get sick when stressed.

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on white spot there are various stages to the life cycle and it is easiest to get rid of when it is in it's free swimming stage, unfortunatly unless skin srcapes and gill filliments are looked at specificly for diseases it won't be seen and i doubt that anyone wants to do this to their prized fish. so the first time that the white spot is actually noticed is when it is a white spot on the fish and this is the stage that is most likely to be fatal for the fish as it also infects the gill tissue.

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apparently the salt seems to be working but continue to treat for a week or two after the symptoms have cleared up to allow for all the cysts to become free swimming and most vunerable to any med's. personally i would use a malachite green based med, but it is terrible stuff that stains everything and is not too good for carpet's either (just ask my mum

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hope all turns out well

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James

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Two fish swim into a concrete wall.

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One turns to the other and says "dam"</P></DIV>

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