Confirmed case of Cryptobia

[z18turbo]

Hi All,

  I have posted this here as I could not find any information on the forums related to this parasite (could be my lack of searching skills), and it has come into my system from aquarium purchased fish here in Melbourne.

  Some background on the issues with my Malawi Hap/Peacock tanks. For the last 5 months I have been dealing with what seemed to be symptoms of Spironucleus that had been brought on by stress factors when by 1200ltr display tank failed and I had to very quickly re house the fish into a 6x2x2 and a 5x2x2 in the garage. This was not difficult as the tank had been running on 4 fx5/6's after I cracked my sump whilst doing maintenance and didn't replace it after making the decision that this tank was to small and as such I was planning to replace with a new 12ft set up so I was able to simply move the water and filters without to much disturbance of the beneficial bacteria.

  I had previously lost the odd fish but I deaths were few and far between and often the result of the after effects of bullying, or de-stabilization of the system such as when I broke the sump, or when a filter failed when I was on holidays and the house sitter failed to observe the tank. As per previous posts my Copadichromis regularly breed in this system and the water parameters have always been stable with weekly 60%+ water changes. My treatment to date had been targeted around Hex with Metro+Prazi and seemed to stop the issues. When I lost a few fish this time around I treated in the same manner and this worked to a point but I did notice recently some sunken belly and one fish showed white discoloration on it's side in the form of a very slight whitish patch. I thought at this point that I may have had TB in the tank but found this odd as all fish that I have added into the display were quarantined (longer for store bought fish). I also had a fish develop single pop eye.

  As I have a large number of fish including some harder to find species I contacted The Fish Vet and arranged a visit from his Melbourne representative to get a definitive diagnosis as I didn't want to lose any more fish, and also if something serious was in the system I wanted it diagnosed before I dropped a large amount of money on a new tank. When the vet arrived we disposed of 2 fish, a wild caught Aulonocara gallireya reef showing a white patch, not eating properly and having a skinny axe head like body shape and a "phenochilus tanzania" showing a sunken belly, this fish was eating but not gaining weight. Looking at the gut and lower intestine of the Pheno with the sunken belly it appeared that the fish had cysts or tumers all over its intestinal tract. The investigation of the peacock showed nothing conclusive. All water parameters were checked and were spot on including treated tap water that I had prepared for a water change.

 Lab testing on the dissected fish has come back as negative for TB or Spironucleus/Hex but positive for Cryptobia. This is what had caused the damage to the phenos gut and the cysts that I had seen were a defensive response by the fish's immune system attempting to isolate the parasite. From what I have been told and read it is easy to mis-diagnose this in tanks and treat for Spironucleus/Hex this does have the desired result of reducing the population of the parasite and allowing things to return to normal for a while. The issue with this is that it seems that as soon as there is a stress agent applied to the fish then it will become an issue again. From what I have read it seems that there is currently nothing that can remove this parasite and that the only real option appears to be destroying the effected population. Treatments with dimetridazole have been attempted and seem to be what is recommended but appear to not be effective as per the discussion in the links below. I have also attached a further link with information on the parasite. I am awaiting a further discussion with the vet on any treatments that may be successful and what my next course of action is. I have a group of 14 Cuckoos that don't appear to be sustainable but I need to no if they can act as carriers. At this point it seems that my options are to destroy all fish, throw out media and sterilize everything or maintain the population as is and allow nature to slowly take it's course which I am not really interested in although destroying 4K+ of fish combined with the money we all spend on power is going to make it hard to convince the better half that fish keeping is a great hobby we simply have to get more new fish. 

  One positive is that the water quality in my tanks is good and it appears my beneficial bacteria colonies are solid enough to be suppressing the full effects of this parasite on the population hence why it has been a sporadic issue.

  If any of the people on here who have far more experience and knowledge than me can offer advice it would be greatly appreciated, and if there are issue with posting these links then can the Mod's please delete and let me know. Also the service given by The Fish Vet was very professional and fast so I would highly recommend them as it is good to have a positive I.D. on my issue rather then stress out and throw numerous meds at the tanks.

http://careyaquarium.blogspot.com.au/

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077

  I will update when I make a decision on the fish.

Thanks,

 

Jarrod

 

 

 

   

  

     

[Link2Hell]

a most informative post Jarrod and some helpful links it is a shame that you have had to go through this

to be able to bring it to our attention

the University of Florida EDIS link make some good reading

I hope you manage to get things under control and so glad you have found a fish vet  

 

[z18turbo]

  Thanks for the reply Chris, yeah disappointing but shows that you can do most things right but still end up in trouble. I think I should have been more selective in where I purchased my fish, especially in the early stages of getting back into the hobby and setting this up as this is where I feel it was introduced. I was very keen to get specific fish and lacked the patience to source them properly. 

  The Vet is and expensive exercise but good to know exactly what is happening. Also cheap in comparison to the hobby as a whole . I am awaiting the lab results and will post them when they come in (I have had a verbal discussion with the vet on the phone about the results ATM). Also glad the I have not passed on any of my fry so it is contained in my system only.

Cheers,

Jarrod

 

[fishdance]

Hello Jarrod,

You are the only one who can decide which is the best course of action. Losing $4K or euthanasing fish will depend on each persons own perspective and priorities. 

It's not surprising to find a problem with fish if you look hard enough. 4 walls of glass confinement creates a lot of stress and parasite issues. Even in the pristine wild environment, diseases and parasites can be an issue. There is no guarantee that a fresh start will mean clean fish in the future, either with same problem or another. And having very clean fish may also be a different problem in itself. 

Keeping the same fish may allow many years of life still, even diseased/parasites.

 

So no answers for you,  just some perspective from an experienced fish keeper. 

[Jim]

Sorry to hear .. unfortunately there has been many who have lost fish to this disease but did know what it was

i believe there is no cure here Australia for cryptobia cause we can't get the meds needed

if you want to eliminate it from your system everything needs to be nuked and yes healthy fish can carry it and not show up till later