Lombardoi female to male

[Ageofaquariums]

Astaxanthin at nuke dose works within a week. 6 months? no one would bother. The scale of use in the industry is huge, only at the small end of the spear, the hobby part, is its use controversial.

Astax is the human tanning pill. Its a melanin style pigment, hence the way it makes lecky yellows dirty up.

Its also natural, we are talking about an end pigment that fishes manufacture themselves from base pigments. In Africans this is generally only something male fish will do, but due to the antioxidant properties, females will take advantage of it if its in the diet and move it to their skin where it can do the most good. The same way almost any animal will.

I am not here to argue either, don't want to make AOA look bad lol

BUT feeding any astax rich food to Lombardoi will turn them all yellow. Male or female. Regardless of age or size.

 

Astax will not just enhance red, think about crabs and shrimps. So many colours, all caused by astax. Something you can reveal by heating them to denature the proteins and show up the raw astax.

 

[Buccal]

Astaxanthin will promote, anything yellow, orange and red, so yes, it would increase yellowing orange or red in any fish with astaxanthin.

But the fast acting photosynthetic bacteria (PSB) in whitecrane actually triggers the natural coloring process.

Melanin ⁱ/ˈmɛlənɪn/ (Greek: μέλας – melas, "black, dark") is a broad term for a group of natural pigments found in most organisms (arachnids are one of the few groups in which it has not been detected). Melanin is produced by the oxidation of the amino acid tyrosine, followed by polymerization. The pigment is produced in a specialized group of cells known as melanocytes.

Melanin, the color seen in fish and color seen in human skin, is simply produced by the oxidization of certain amino acids with the finishing process of polymerization.   The pigments produced within the fish is done by a specialized bunch of cells called melanocytes,,, 

Now, it's the PSB (photosynthetic), which is naturally grown and cultivated or manufactured in a synthetic form from crude oil,,, actually bipasses the process oxidization of amino acids and directly triggers the melanocytes to produce a flood of color and in excess.

Carotenes which is a term used for substances in all finished coloring in living things, is what makes your hair brown, the electric blue feathers on a electric blue wren, the orange color in a carrot,,, are all carotene.

Carotene, like many other animals, yes it produces its own, and astaxanthin is topping it,,, but PSB triggers the melanocytes to go into overdrive and produce its own base colors,,, and some females even have solid base blue in Malawis that would otherwise be silver,, much like some humans, the balance of hormones is what allows a hair lip on a woman or breasts on a man,,, the PSB pushes the fish in the same way.

Astaxanthin with the antioxidant properties, the proterties will not go and get used as either antioxidant or coloration as one or the other,,, it's end process is coloration,, the antioxidant benefit is a result of the process of astaxanthin or Carotenes being produced.

astaxanthin is found in many color forms, especially synthetics,, but to date, 90% of astaxanthin for fish use is in support of yellow, orange and red.

All, generated information on google supports my trials,, it takes many months for astaxanthin to work,, any other finding is likely not giving the fish credit for its own accord and ability.

Astaxanthin is generally a very week enhancer, but PSB is full on potent,,,, the best thing that works like astaxanthin in the way it works, and has a fast effect, as called chlorophyll pink which is synthetic,, older style stuff use to turn yellow fish into oranges and reds or alter it in some way,,, but these days they have special shade grades of chlorophyll pink.

Astaxanthin WILL NOT turn a female red empress from silver to bright blue.

PSB WILL turn a females red empress from silver to bright blue,,, and I've proved it with many tests to show my validity .

Buuuuut astaxanthin fed to female red empress for extended period, will see her change from a silvery grey color to a yellowy bronzy tint look,,,,, maybe people have noticed females in species look grey then other occasions look yellow bronze,, sometimes I here people say locational difference,,, no,, it's diet differences.

sunlight increases production of melanin,,, I grow most cichlids in out door ponds under polycarbonate lids which lets distorted sun come in contact,, I've had people ask if I've used super g when I hadn't,,, the sun increases color in fish expenansually.

[Ageofaquariums]

Chlorophyll pink is just castax.

Yes astax will colour up all protomelas females. Thats why shops use it.

Just as it will turn Lombardoi females yellow.

This is the industry standard for colouring up juvie African cichlids. Its not like something we are experimenting with, or trying to work out.

[none]

On 03/08/2016 at 4:55 PM, Snaus said:

Hi all. New to the forum scene. My topic for discussion is : Lombardoi females (apparently) turning male.

So i bought a trio 1m 2f at about 5cm. Fed daily on Absolute Colour. 2 weeks later the blue females have turned yellow with eggspots on their anal fins just like the male.

The seller was pretty knowledgeable about the species and had a large colony that looked great. Hence the reason i bought some.

Fast forward 3 months and i went back to the seller with some pics of the so called females and he kindly gave me 3 more (females). 3 weeks later they too are changing to yellow with eggspots.

Is it just that some fish take longer to show their male colours or could it be the food they are being fed???

Any feedback would be appreciated. Cheers.

Amazingly this has evolved into an argument about foods yet everyone has overlooked the most basic of answers... You can't sex female lombardoi at 5cm! You can't even sex females properly at 7.5/8cm. Some apparent females will end up being males at large adult size. To further complicate things sex change is common in several Malawi species - this being one of them. People saying they can sex these kinds of fish at that size are kidding themselves.

[fishdance]

Females are traditionally blue and males traditionally yellow but this does not always hold true. And there are other ways to determine a fishes sex besides colour. 

Part of the problem is the OP only has 3 - 6 fish. The most reliable method is to get a dozen (or two) to grow and whittle these down to the fish you actually want. Not only for determining sex but for fish quality and parental /social behaviour. 

[Buccal]

^^^^ absolutely,,, it's the breeders that say stuff like that! that you know your likely to get good fish from.

A bit weird with lombardies, I've always plucked out a extremely occasional subdominant female that goes a mustard color,,,,  but the males at times appear like bloody traffic lights (from one color to a complete change in micro seconds).

But some other breeders and in chain stores I've seen through history, seem to have greenish intermediate colors half in and out and looking over all average and may be 30% of offspring,,  where as my line have always been very female dominant in ratio offspring, and the mass (fry juvie advanced) are all glowing light blue, with only one or two usually completely presenting fully as male glowing bright yellow,,, my line though, does seem to have a level of aggression inbuilt, bit more than usual.

[Buccal]

11 hours ago, Ageofaquariums said:

Chlorophyll pink is just castax.

Yes astax will colour up all protomelas females. Thats why shops use it.

Just as it will turn Lombardoi females yellow.

This is the industry standard for colouring up juvie African cichlids. Its not like something we are experimenting with, or trying to work out.

But just to set one thing straight, so people know, and detest if you must,,,

Super R has astaxanthin in it, and many other brands also has astaxanthin and some being even more higher levels, like African Attack or Aquamunch,,,, and Super R with astaxanthin in it along with many other foods that have astaxanthin, will color your fish up in the same aspect, some bit more, some bit less,,,,,,, the use of the Astaxanthin will enhance color, but we disagree on the time it takes,,, astaxanthin won't charge up massive gain, on females, when I say yellow, it's only a background hue difference in color, example,, subtle light grey or subtle light yellow/grey/bronze,, if the fish has more translucent scales, then effects of astaxanthin will be seen sooner.

Other foods with astaxanthin will do exactly same thing to females,, for example, tetra bits fed to female Protomelus red emp and she will get the faint yellow subtle look rather than grey...

Now,, this is where I believe your words are misleading,,, please don't get upset. Honest.

If you feed super R to a female red emp, she will stoke up not far of a glowing blue male without the red flanks, NO OTHER FOOD WILL DO THIS, no matter how much astaxanthin is in it...

Also,,, astaxanthin must be sourced and applied to achieve one color at a time,,, one type of astaxanthin will do blue, one will do red, one yellow and so on,,,, then it starts to get complicated, wether being naturally sourced, cultivated and grown or straight out synthetic.

Super R promotes ranges of colors,, because the PSB photosynthetic Bacteria is stimulating the fishes body to go into overdrive and produce its own colors,, but only for fish types of FLORESCENT colors being classically lake Malawi,,, I can assure anyone, that astaxanthin does not do this or work that way. Make females look like males and fry in dress.

It turns out that many of the chemicals produced in the fishes body involving color production are closely related structures to hormone chemicals,,, sending this into overdrive is pretty bloody taxing I'd say.

When we speak off fish coloration,, ?, enhancer?, promoter?,, important that people know the right things.

Other foods with astaxanthin are great for breeding fish,,, super G has astaxanthin but will stop fish breeding and stuff the lot up till feed ceases, why ?, PSB the second enhancer in super R, and nothing like astaxanthin,, the PSB is a synthetic derivative of crude oil believe it or not, as many crazy things seem to derive from also.

PSB also stimulates extra fin extensions, and through many trials on a assumption, is that super G PSB actually helps damaged fish fins heal faster lol.

[Ageofaquariums]

Quote

Also,,, astaxanthin must be sourced and applied to achieve one color at a time,,, one type of astaxanthin will do blue, one will do red, one yellow and so on,,,, then it starts to get complicated, wether being naturally sourced, cultivated and grown or straight out synthetic.

Uh, what?

You have 1 type of astax that can be manipulated with proteins to create almost any colour.

I use it as a raw product that I fortify foods with. Its all thats needed to achieve male colouration in almost any size african cichlid.

If needed I can always source some fry and nuke them with astax to show. Lombards are cheap enough.

[none]

On 24/08/2016 at 9:02 AM, Ageofaquariums said:

 

If needed I can always source some fry and nuke them with astax to show. Lombards are cheap enough.

Happy to supply as many as you need  @ 4.5cm+ - basically the size that the original poster bought and was told they could be sexed at...

Further to my previous post: I should add - good fish that are not stunted can be as young as 3 months old at 5cm. They should not be yellow at that size (apart from food causation's). I have up to 500 Lombardoi here at any one time and I've never seen a bright yellow male at 5cm. 6cm some will start to faintly go yellow - 8.5cm dominant males are fully coloured - but 5cm - no.

 

[Ageofaquariums]

Smaller is better, in every way. But around 5cm would be more accurate.

Just how many am I going to have to turn bright yellow, for people not to argue its a statistical anomaly?

Also, anyone care to wager on them going blue or yellow? Will give the blue crew nice odds lol

OK so no illegal gambling, not even for science!

[Buccal]

I wouldn't even be bothered if I was wrong, but everything else I've said, I stand 100% by,,, I'm also human and get things wrong, such as small memories, which species turn what colors when G in use,, the more that goes on, the more to remember, then more to forget, as new info again comes in the door, names of fish, names of plants, then day job profession, all the PIN numbers and numbers,,, lol,,, somethings got to give, hah, ha

Maybe I deliberately sparked up the G debate ???,,, nah hah ha.

I also wonder wether different bloodlines have different tendencies, such as occasional dominant females getting some yellow on then for one blood line, and then maybe another line has different tendencies like high percentage of females in offspring with deeper stronger blue color.

But difference between astaxanthin and PSB is not known by most.

If good things are said about astaxanthin like its antioxidant levels, then some people may possibly see super G or R and then sees astaxanthin in ingredients,,, then they won't be making a correct decision if they don't know that PSB can shorten lives, ruin livers, stop fish breeding whilst in use, color up females and fry,, then go and buy it thinking it's the good oil.

Long term wise, PSB in constant use as staple diet, will cause shortened life, and/or health issues.

Used as a tool in low percentage ratio to rest off healthy diet is harmless and fine,, but some side effects persist, like not breeding, and females/juvies coloring up.

[Ageofaquariums]

Ah ha, we find common ground at last, as I am not bothered being right!

If you want to cultivate PSB its rather easy, although the trick is in getting the starter culture and convincing the neighbours the smell isnt you lol

[Buccal]

Yes, I've researched the cultivation,, very very interesting,, the species are infinite, well it seems it,,, they come in milky white colors, light pinks, deep purples and seen mustard color ones,,, all pictures of course.

Big long shallow vats open tops to a series of particular scheduled different kinds of lighting,,, the bacteria is grown, then deliberately are put under induced stress using different lights, which triggers different biological processes in bacterias to result in and give of a desired product.

They can synthetically copy this, believe it or not, from crude oil, many food products derived in this way is labeled unsafe for humans,,,,,,.   The chlorophyll pink colorant is synthetic.

Natural carotene type colorants like brine shrimp, certain crustaceans, carrot, pumpkin and spirallina are the normal ones found in our popular fish foods we all know.    ??

[Ageofaquariums]

The colouration fish get from crustaceans/brine shrimp, is astax that they have stored from algae they have eaten.

Green lipped mussels, are however, my pick of the secondary astax sources.

[Buccal]

Yep, Carotenes which are classified as organic pigments, are found in photosynthetic organisms, plants, bacteria and fungi.

Astaxanthin is a form of carotene and is labeled the strongest of all Carotenes,,,,, but it is not the strongest color foods out there,,, bacteria actually makes some insane stuff that's not quite Carotenes, and some do make Carotenes that are stronger than astaxanthin,, but all that gear generally isn't on oz shelves,,, except for whitecrane.

 Pumkin lightly boiled and fed to albino bristle nose makes them glow deep orange.