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updated model for imported fish PIAA


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We just had another bloke here from AQIS to release our fish from quarantine. He was also saying that no one knows what's going to happen yet. He reckons there is also the possibility that they will just ban the import all together for any species which is known to carry the desease.   Quote from Ben miller from abyss.

 

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11 hours ago, parkesg said:

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years. Ducksta make a good point with the imports. There have been a lot of imports coming in over the space of 3-4 years, with all the major states covered. I think this has crowded out the breeders side of it as people perceive the German stock as superior, and have spent their limited dollars on imports.  People are always going to want new and different fish to keep and going forward it would seem the only place to get this would be from breeders. Tropheus for example, the demand for wilds has always been huge, which mean people like tropheus. If the changes to import laws mean we cannot get the wilds, people will have no choice but to buy tankraised, and will go to the breeders with the highest quality stock (or cheapest price)..So Buccal, it would be a real shame for a breeder with your experience and stock list to give it up.

Yes I know Grant, but unfortunately my hands are kind of tied,,, fish are not selling or barely selling in Perth as its at a all time shocking low, the shops hardly buy at all,, it's just a revolting circle,,, because my fish that don't sell outgrow everything and kill each other off and I end up with odd numbers that don't really suit the commercial bulk standards I run to suit the sheer size of it all and its costs,,, I'm not to concerned about costs, it's more so all my spare time and weekends that I give up which these days is for nothing,,,, I gave up fishing and all the great stuff I use to be in to.

in the past, before the rediculous shipping costs, it was great, as I could sell fish like it's meant to be,,, but the shipping cost on bulk boxes is absolutely outrageous.

Time and effort to breed fish in bulk is full on, and I don't mind if I'm getting a little pocket money in return,,, but now it's out of balance.

Im still pulling great coin of fish, but not cichlids,,, I'm doing better than ever with barramundi and stingrays.

Stingrays I get a pretty penny for, and I do 10,000 - 12,000 Barra a season which I collect from the breeders at 2cm and grow out to 10cm and get $3 each for,,,, so none of that hard of breeding cichlids and It all goes pretty well.

People I was supplying cichlids to, always saying this doesn't sell, and that won't sell, what about such and such have you got these,,, lol, I had the stuff they asked for months ago and not buying it back then.

My true passion is with cichlids,,, I think in the long run, I'll cut the entire practice down by 80 or 90% or so, and just run 6-10 tanks and keep what I personally enjoy and sell the odd batch, and get my weekends back.

 

All these different ways to get cichlids into oz via people that conform with oz rules,,,,, don't forget our orders are tiny and poxy, who overseas would want to bother with all that.    Nothing in it.

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All these guys do (quarantine, aqis)  is create a black market. These guys can create a situation where they can see the stuff coming in and control it, create a situation where things are so ridiculously hard or/and a situation where people sneak stuff in for huge profits.

Honestly I cant really see any need to constantly bring in new varients of fish. There is no reason that a little strategic planning cant keep most fish ticking along. A few haps could do with some help like venustus, dimis got a great fix (helping hand -  to fix the bent noses) 10 years ago etc but some line breeding could fix alot of fish. Might bring back some pride in what people are doing in the hobby.

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Absolutely Chuck, full heartedly agree with you.

The real common stuff that will stay real common will stay low in value and affordable, but rest of stuff will slowly disappear and become more expensive over time and will create a new type of buyer/fish keeper,,,, and trust me, I'll be supporting that black market big time and I mean big time,,, and for those that grin and think it's garbage, think again.

By the way,,, my polystigma, venustus and dimi comp are all A grade straight as a dye.

I ask shops for $3 venustus, $3.50 poly, $4 dimi comp, and they hardly ever sell, yet I see these fish in the shops with deformity, strange markings and shapes,,, obviously going for the cheaper fish,,, i just don't get it.

Ive also line bred and introduced other genes to N.fusco, B.nototaenia and these are magnificent and will breed a bit down the track,,, but what's the use, 10-20 will sell then no one will want them for another year or so.

Every time these days, I try to bring back something new to do the cycle again, I'm always told they don't sell, so then what's the use.

Im seen as having good rare stuff, so the bread and butter stuff which would normally fill my sales void and make up for for any reductions,, is taken up by other backyard or light on fishkeepers   breeding them, not actual stronghold breeders like me that would otherwise be willing to do this for life,,,, as shops tend to like doing trade offs with food so they can profit from that part also,,,,,,,, but the rare stuff sells so fickle.

But then again, if turnover isn't there and no-one cares, then what does it matter.  Hah

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Just some added food for thought.

Looking at L numbers,,, 95% of them are not importable and can't be passed through quarantine and never goes through that avenue,,,  and considering this they seem to do ok and plenty enough around to suit demand.

But as a result, check out all the market values.

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It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that the industry has been evolving and a new approach is needed. When I get up and running properly I'm going to try working with cost based pricing rather than market based, but leave a little room to modify some prices based on market conditions. In a perfect world I would be able to build in a promotions budget and have enough room to move that I could attempt some predatory pricing whilst staying in the black overall. Its a completely different approach to just about any breeder I know, but it seems to be the best way forward in just about every other industry so it would make sense that it would apply to the fish game too.

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1 hour ago, malrift said:

So another words your planning on under cutting everyone.

Kind of, but not really. That's not the point to focus on, but rather the idea that the fish are priced to sell based on highly accurate costings of what they actually cost to breed and grow out before they are off to the market.. Moving beyond that I do see a legitimate case for the use of carefully selected loss leaders at times, but I'm really starting to go off topic here.

To get back on track I can see this whole import thing going one of maybe six or seven different ways. I seem to be the only person who is entertaining the thought that somehow, even if it is highly unlikely, it is potentially possible that once the dust settles the new regime will actually work out better for us as hobbyists as far as ease of importing cichlids goes. What I am confident of is that the general outlook on the new rules in say, 2 months time, will be significantly different to how they will seem 2 years after that. Its out of our hands anyway (for now) so I guess we will just have to wait and see.

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What your talking about is lining the shops pockets with more money.

The shops have to pass on the savings,, and every other breeder would have to conform also to make it work.

And if it did work, then more breeders will drop out, because there's stuff all money to be made out of existing prices.

A follow on effect would be that breeders much bigger and better than you would drop out.

Your so not on the right track,,,, you just don't go messing with values like that.

Ive seen people in the past with ethics like you, and it's just fast forwarding into a early grave.

Im actually appalled to read that,,, taxes, fish food cost, electricity and water already so expensive and always going up.

Its so far off that you'd kill yourself before you'd get to kill the market,,, not words of a experienced fisho, more like running hot on new found passion.

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I probably have biased eyes right now and looking purely at a lake Malawi point of view, I honestly can't see it having a huge effect at all.

Haps and mbuna have all but been stricken off the import list for a while now anyway and apart from a select few aulonocara "which I might add half of them are already quite common in aus" I can't see the stop of imports having a great effect.

If anything I think it may give due hard enthusiasts a bit of encouragement to keep the blood lines strong.

I know it's a different story for tangs but speaking purely on the malawi side considering 90%of what's on this forum would all be malawi.

 

It sucks regardless but I don't think everyone needs to start selling up and giving up

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For starters it is near impossible to a curately calculate cost of producing fish. Every species is different, there are too many variables in what happens to grow out fish. Watched alot of guys come and go trying the same idea. There is a reason why it is not used in this industry,

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16 hours ago, kanned_guru said:

It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that the industry has been evolving and a new approach is needed. When I get up and running properly I'm going to try working with cost based pricing rather than market based, [...snip...]

generally speaking the buyers make the market, not the sellers - unless you have something rare that everyone wants, which may happen with the new import restrictions but it is too soon to tell.

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3 hours ago, Donny Brasco said:

I probably have biased eyes right now and looking purely at a lake Malawi point of view, I honestly can't see it having a huge effect at all.

Haps and mbuna have all but been stricken off the import list for a while now anyway and apart from a select few aulonocara "which I might add half of them are already quite common in aus" I can't see the stop of imports having a great effect.

If anything I think it may give due hard enthusiasts a bit of encouragement to keep the blood lines strong.

I know it's a different story for tangs but speaking purely on the malawi side considering 90%of what's on this forum would all be malawi.

 

It sucks regardless but I don't think everyone needs to start selling up and giving up

Well, there are two subjects we are discussing at the same time here really, which is 

Losing species or purity and the renewal.

Lack of over all interest in oz for fish keeping and it's very slow decline.

Dont get lost and confused in what I'm talking about, I never said thinking of shutting down because of import laws at all.

Its that the interest is dying down and turnover is no longer there, it's this fact, that it's the bigger breeders which are the holdfast of the hobby,,, if you took away the major breeders, YOUD BE VERY SUPRISED TO SEE THE SPECIE DECLINE DROP FAST.

There are little backyard breeders who think they are doing the job off maintaining species, trust me, they are helping but it's fractional.

You spoke of what we are limited to as far as the importable only goes, I can't say much being on a public forum, but there may be a few things you don't know, and need to speak to higher level people in the industry.

 

Due hard enthusiasts more encouragement from new import laws ?,,,, well these enthusiasts are already ready and keen already as it is and always has been,,, it's not import laws that drive the will, big proper breeders and little breeders alike all run on a hardcore disease called "passion".

Trust me, effect will take place, for those in the mainstream scene will start to notice about 2.5 years after the law change, and don't forget the dying interest along side of,,, bank interest rates will start to rise, taxes and cost of living slowly squeezing out the luxury items.    (Note that the things I'm saying aren't directly relative to myself as I'm very self made wealthy).

Then 5 years after the law change, it will start to show as being quite apparent.

A few extra years on again,,, BANG BANG BANG, few good species will rise again but at very high prices,,, the beginnings of my favorite fish scene scenario,,, yes you guessed it "THE BLACK MARKET".    C H I N G,, C H I N G.    $$$$$

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  • 8 months later...

I've heard of shops closing.1 shop in particular has changed hands for the worst and doesn't give a craP where as the old owner cared and imported some sought after fish.I've seen a big rise in 2 tank breeders who cash grab I've also seen a lot of craP fish being sold for something its not.is hybrids.

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you dont get that kick off waiting for a delivery and kind of knowing its a close ancestor if not from the lake.   there are some still out there trying to find away around it i believe.

maybe the shop in? dont have much choice and the knowledge to no differences in fish. intangcity.

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you dont get that kick off waiting for a delivery and kind of knowing its a close ancestor if not from the lake.   there are some still out there trying to find away around it i believe.

maybe the shop in? dont have much choice and the knowledge to no differences in fish. intangcity.

What are you saying

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