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Dainichi


myster619

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Two weeks ago , I bought "Dainichi Cichlid XL PRO Sinking Baby Pellet 250g 1mm @ $27.95" from TheTechDen for my frontosa. They really enjoyed it straight away. Only thing I could see is these pellet are sinking more faster then NLS cichlids or Thera-A 1mm size. Here's the back cover of food;

food_zpsnrfzysle.jpg

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I have one of the sinking baby ones (can't remember which one) for my fry. Honestly, they haven't been particularly interested in it. They are far more interested in the TetraCichlid Cichlid crisps if I break them up a little. Just wish they sunk a bit better.

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Wondering if Antarctic krill is somehow better than normal krill.

@Buccal What's your opinion of these ingredients?

The ingredients look fine mate,,, I've read many write ups on this food with all positive reviews.

I don't like the two wheat Flour and germ so close to beginning of the list which indicates higher ingredient portions.

I personally look out for ingredients with all aquatic sources or close to,,, though spectrum turns this on its head being a safe food with landbase proteins, though they have increased more aquatic ingredient of late,,,,,

These days I like to see high fiber with a minimum of at least 3%,,, as it assists with fluent passing of waiste.

Even that newish Xtreme food the rival of spectrum but not much like it, someone that use to hold a position at spectrum had a feud and split away from them starting up his own Xtreme,,,,,, this is similar to Dainichi I think.

At those prices I'd expect to see something outstanding,,,, but it's not really there.

Another thing,,, please no-one take offense, I see many people say their fish really go for a certain food they are trying and sort of implying it means it's a good food then,,,, but it means absolutely nothing.

The best nutritious food your fish could turn their noses up.

A fat little 10 year old human kid with a addiction to macdonalds totally adores big macs and fry's,,, yet it's crap.

Fish can sometimes be more interested in the buoyancy motion of food rather than being selective on what's nice to taste or eat.

My fish smash anything I give them,,, I keep it mixed up so their use to all different buoyancy sinking modes,

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I got some sample packets from Labyrinth the other week .... thanks Andrew

I have veggie fx, veggie pro, xl pro and colour supreme

so far I have tried the veggie fx and xl pro ............ both have been eaten straight off

the fish are normally fed Thera A and Hikari mini wafers

sample size was 1mm and I found this fine with most of my fish Geo's, Cories, L cats

and larger fry

It may just be spring but my cories are showing interest in spawning and I don't need any

more mouthfuls of G. steindachneri

for my Altos, Steatacranus and Desert gobies 1mm is too small

I have tried other "new" foods and had mixed results

NSWCS members get 10% off with Labyrinth and from the rough pricing I've been told it is

marginally dearer than NLS but I would consider the change as it sinks as claimed and is

available in buckets

Food comes down to a few things and cost is normally first but you need to consider if a

dearer food is better for your fish or budget and you can always use a cheaper basic and

supplement it with a dearer option

Despite some of the claims of one food for all I think along the lines of Buccal with mixing

your foods to suit your fish by adding or subtracting from them protein to veg scale

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Wondering if Antarctic krill is somehow better than normal krill.

The accepted logic is that antarctic krill has less pollutants in it's environment and food chain and therefore is cleaner.

"Antarctic Krill Meal" means it is not whole krill. I wonder if they are using the leftovers from a healthfood/vitamin company that is producing Krill Oil supplements. Not many other products would go to the effort of sourcing high quality krill (and not use the whole thing). But that sort of doesn't matter...

I haven't tried this food yet, but I'm due to visit Andrew so I might just have to.

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Dainichi $210 per 2.5kg

NLS $110 per 2 kg

Hikari $100 per 1kg

New Era $130 per 1.8kg

Xtreme Cichlid $115 per 2.2kg

Aquamunch $30 per 1kg

Orca $25 per 2kg

Dainichi is ridiculously priced. I don't really see them lasting long in the hobby.

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I haven't seen Dainichi's full range. But Hikari Carnivore ($100 per Kg, other Hikari food is cheaper) is fed mainly by exotic keepers to expensive/large growing fish. I can justify the price when feeding to fish that have cost me $300+ but feeding at that price to the average cichlid keeper may price Dainichi out of the game. That is where the bulk of sales would come from I would think, the average keeper. Lots more people who keep, 1-3 tanks that do it part time in comparison to hardcore hobbyists that would spend big $ to feed fish. If only the top 5% of fish keepers can afford (or justify) spending the huge amount to buy your product you have effectively priced yourself out of 95% of the market.

I worked in a couple LFS while I was studying, I could convince people/keepers that NLS (or similar at roughly the same price) was worth the outlay, but their would be plenty of groans and questioning of the price, I would hate to try sell something even more expensive again to the average punter.

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Hikari cichlid staple is maybe $50/kilo depending where you are buying it.
The "top" cichlid range is maybe $90/kilo?

Most hikari advocates seem to feed mostly the staple (or maybe gold) and then with a better range only 2-3 times a week.

This also comes from retail on multiples of 250g bags.
But if you have a good relationship with your LFS and use bulk Hikari, you probably pay a little bit less than that again.

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Now that sera flora is $90-$100 for a 10 liter bucket, why would one look any where else.

Sera flora is the cleanest food I've come across yet......

But marketability versus audience wise,,, Alex made some very realist points.

But for those few that want a quality food that actually sinks has now another option.

I always use to think Sera flora had nothing much in it,,, but it has the best of all worlds and Definetely keeps fish healthy

Well bang up some more reviews on the Dainichi for some long term results when we get there, who ever trials it.

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  • 3 months later...
Quote

Even that newish Xtreme food the rival of spectrum but not much like it, someone that use to hold a position at spectrum had a feud and split away from them starting up his own Xtreme,,,,,, this is similar to Dainichi I think.

 

Time to get a few facts straight.  Xtreme was started by Ricky Biro, who lives down the road from the owner of New Life. Decades ago they raised and sold fish together, that's where it begins and ends with them.  Ricky started up his Xtreme food 20+ years after the fact.  lol

 

Quote

"Antarctic Krill Meal" means it is not whole krill

 

Nonsense.  Herring meal generally means whole herring, ditto to sardine meal, and Antarctic krill meal. These are whole foods, collected from the ocean, and are immediately processed on board the multimillion dollar ships that collect them. The following company is one of the largest suppliers of krill meal in the world.

 http://www.worldfishing.net/news101/shipyardsrepairers/ship-design/akers-new-krill-vessel

These same ships also process a portion of what they collect for krill oil, and/or raw frozen.  Different processes, for different markets, all done on board the same ships.

http://www.efeedlink.com/contents/09-22-2008/b93a6a43-c3e8-442c-a863-fa947faa8387-a001.html

 

I got a chuckle reading about Dainichi, their market dried up here years ago, I think partially due to the cost, and partially due to the results seen over time.  You guys in AU are a little late to the party, but I see that some are already drawing the same conclusion.

 

Cheers! 

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Hi RD., I haven't seen you pop up on oz forums for a while,,, not sure wether you'll check again here for any replies.

 

I was told by a particular store owner who claimed that Ricky was a part of nls, then had a falling out then tried having a crack at the market pie slices,,,,, crazy how the truth morphs out of accuracy,,, no harm there then lol.

 

So,,,, being the nls fighting dog you use to be for them and endorsing hard via your wealth of knowledge,,,,, have you ever at all encountered people's description of nls being a very excessive with large amounts of fish waiste that clags up filters filters faster than using all other quality foods ?????

I would be Suprised if you said no,,,, I know you only keep displays these days and you've always been hell bent on using nls only without trying to compare other foods in the many recent years,,,,, it's a shame it occurs.

Its Definetely not rubbish talk, I've reverted a few times to test the theory only to have the filtration devices to need cleaning in half the time or even less.

Ive also been told that world wide nls sales has reduced considerably giving way to other brands.......

How would you rate Sera-flora against it,,,, I've seen you speak of so many foods being inferior to nls, but you've hardly ever mentioned or spoke of Sera before.

 

Also, I was told by another store owner, lol, that world wide laws are coming in the future about extraction of sea life from the ocean to make fish feeds which aquaculture has raped it.

Supposedly soon, no more harvesting allowed, so companies that make feeds will have to find alternatives.

Heard of this ??

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Maybe I've missed something. 

RD - Which one of those links indicates krill meal will always contain only 100% whole organisms. (As opposed to containing whole organisms and bulked out with the scrap from the other processes like having oils extracted?)

Like all things there are differences in quality. Yes you can get whole krill meal. But if it's not labeled as such why would I assume they've used the most expensive one. 

I find your comment particularly odd since your entire presence here has been focused on fish nutrition and advocating knowing what ingredient labels mean.  

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Quote

But if it's not labeled as such why would I assume they've used the most expensive one. 

There is no law regarding how one labels krill meal,  and prior to a single American company starting the entire "whole" marketing gimmick, no manufacturer used such terminology. With regards to legal speak here in North America, no such rule or terminology exists. So assume what you will, but Antarctic Krill Meal does NOT equate to krill from scraps.  To think otherwise is simply ridiculous for anyone who has worked in the fish food industry - and I'm not referring to some gossip monger at your LFS. Those links were to provide yourself and anyone else interested with a little education on the subject.  If you want to believe that there is something more sinister going on in the background, that is certainly your prerogative.

 

Hey Buccal, I actually trial many foods, this is no real secret. Some pass, some fail miserably. I just don't care to argue much these days about foods, getting older I guess. lol No big deal about Rick Biro, just goes to show how easily rumours get started. Like Non-Whole Krill Meal. :)

Sera has never been big in these parts. In all fairness I haven't looked at any of their products in years, but last time I did I wasn't impressed with the amount of terrestrial based starch/carbs in most of their formulas.  Pretty much the same how I feel about Tetra. IMO those companies have not stayed current with the science that is available today.  But hey, for those happy feeding it no worries here, it's just not a food that I have ever personally been interested in pursuing.

 

As far as the waste issue, honestly I have heard this and more about all foods. At the same time I know many-many happy customers of this same food, and most of the others. It's really hard for me to judge what others are doing in their tanks, with anything. Know what I mean? I personally tend to feed lightly so massive amounts of waste has never been a huge issue for me. I also started adding probiotic powder to my tanks a couple yrs or so back which helps to reduce organic waste in the tank, and the filters. You guys should try it, amazing stuff!  Not to mention the non pathogenic bacteria out compete the pathogenic bacteria, which is always a bonus. It's just good management I think. Many of these products are sold in the aquatic industry, but I buy the cheap stuff sold in bulk and designed for ponds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, I use the splosht brand, I get the farmer pack size.

Ive also used a more modern aquaculture strength brand called spectrum believe it or not.

But the splosht get good results to, but cheaper.

 

For me, it's instant waiste that I find is the issue, also long term waiste,,,,,, my mechanical screens block up more than twice as fast on the mech screens, also the waste breaks away easier into bits when trying to remove from my sump (2.9m x 1.2m).

The long term build up on the bio media also is twice as fast,,, 

The brand I'm comparing it to is sera-flora only.

I only feed tues, thurs, sat and sun,,,,,, and only once on those days, and never see round bellies on any of the 130 species I have,,,,,,,, so no over-feeding.

Because I know intake characteristics of all my fish I can supplement extra over the main sera percentage with otohime hirame accordingly which is very rich and aquatic ingredient only.

Difference in maintenance is incredible and water has a perfect crystal clear fixed state (without using fangle dangle mechanical medias).

Switch back to nls as I've tried a few times now, and yep, instant issues again.

The sera/hirame mix keeps fish conditioned and breeding just as well as nls ever did. (Note I was a nls hardcore user for over 8 years), and still using it before that when it first came in from Paul at Morley aquariums in west oz,,,, before Warruna hit the scene.

I also do find at the same frequency feeding rates, nls vs sera, the nls fish don't hold condition to fish as well with my very light feeding regimes.

But, nls in the past, I could never fault for nutrition and breeding.

ive tried the jumbo pellets on the 28 or so breeder stingrays I have,,, it was like a toothpaste tube filled with human poo and big lines squeezed out of it on the fiberglass bottom that the Rays swam over the top of smearing it and pushing the nasty poo paste everywhere,, I couldn't believe it.

I use Marine gold pellets (purely seafood derivative), for rays, which creates a small spiral of poo which breaks up into bits of nothing as the Rays swim over it.

I find nls poo, from cichlids, are large in girth and long and lots of the bright orange brown stuff.

With sera, poo is smaller, breaks up into bits fast and less in general.

I also find that human cultivated beneficial bacterias (splosht) and other better brands, have a harder time combatting nls waste compared to sera/hirame mix.

Im not the only one amongst the bigger breeders that think this.

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