please help..it's doing my head in :) read info

[LithoMan]

Hi

My msobo colony .....and in the past i have seen on cobalts and red zebras..

I get these random black spots

i have been told its nothing major and harmless but really gets on my nerves when i see them..

WHAT ARE THEY CALLED ?

i have googled and i can see things like BLACK SPOT OR SPIRULINA SPOT.

Has anyone worked it out and can help me...

i have found 1-2 pics on the internet of what it looks like

thanks

[LithoMan]

i feed sera

algae max nls

baby brine

thera a nls

i have been low on thera and have been feeding sera and algae max more than usual....could it have too much spirulina ????

[Chuckmeister]

looks like this to me

Have you tried a salt bath? You could also try commercial medications for parasites.

[LithoMan]

they dont stick out of the body

they are flush as far as my eyes can see

and i dont see them flashing(scratching)

i will dose tank with salt to see what happens

[Chuckmeister]

Salt is not gonna hurt and worth a try.

Someone else is bound to have a better idea but I'd start at salt especially if your fish are not showing signs of distress.

maybe do a nice big water change at the same time.

[Buccal]

I know we have spoken about this privately before lithoman,,,

There is nothing that will rid of this,,, your fish are perfectly healthy.

It's just a form of irregular pigmentation (not genetic).

Small scratches or war wounds that heal up can get this pigmentation, also excessive spriralina that causes no harm.

There known microscopic organisms which can cause this also, but again, no harm and cannot be taken away.

Google up lakespots on wild caught frontosa. Lakespots being black spots,,, not locations.

[LithoMan]

what gets me is

this is not my original colony of msobo

this is a new colony i have grown out and they are starting to have it .. and only the msobos GRRRR

[Chuckmeister]

i would get their correct diet back on track and make sure your water is ok. Do a gravel clean etc and tick off the easy knowns so you know your tank is exactly where it should be. I'd still do a salt treatment cause it only costs a little salt. you never know !!

Have you got a pic of your actual fish?

[LithoMan]

I will try and take this evening...

[Buccal]

There are more suseptable species,,,, I've found proper flamebacks and most pure Vic haps, elec yellows, dragn bloods but not pure Aulonocara, N.fusco, b.nototania, L.nkali, P.solousi, there are many others.

Only comes up as they get older, and mainly due to scratched areas where it's healed back up from vigorous breeding.

Once upon a time I use to use spectrum only, and never really encountered this thing (much),,,, but since using sera-flora more than ever it seems more prevelent.

Sera flora really increases carotenes and pigmentations in fish,,, makes yellows more yellow and blue more blue.

It's only natural that areas of fish regenerating its color back, goes into over drive and creates exta colors than what's needed.

It's never worried me,,,, in my displays where breeding isn't a norm, I hardly see this at all unless the fish are retired grandpa Xbreeders.

[jcsongei]

Buccal's answer seems most plausible. I haven't found a reasonable explanation for it either.

Scars from healed wounds seems reasonable but for the fact they are in very random places and can occur on the tank boss as much as any other fish.

Ammonia/nitrate/chlorine burn is a possibility, but other obvious signs of stress would accompany these you would think.

It seems to be a pigmentation issue rather than anything else, so in theory could be freckles or moles caused by long lighting exposure or UV coming in the window?

It bothers me too because I like clean looking fish and these spots present themselves sometimes only as the fish age.

[MVP]

Did these spots appear over time or were they always on the fish? I see the same spots on discus commonly but theyre on them from the start. They don't seem to grow in or out of the spots its just the unique colouring of that fish.

Sorry its not really an answer more an experience ive had with something that looks similar.

[chorrylan]

My suspicion would be that they're cysts from a burrowing parasite or one that is laying eggs subcutaneously. Check out the koi forums and you'll see very similar stuff, in fact increasingly in recent times.

I once bought some clown loaches that had very similar black spots and as I couldn't identify any particular parasite I ended up treating them with a potassium permanganate solution at 2mg per litre (ie a bit over a gram in a 6x2x2) .. I think 4 times at 3 day intervals and then repeated that a month later to be thorough.

Potassium permanganate is a strong oxidant so in effect burns off (or suffocates) parasites (and your fish also if you overdose ... just luckilly it is brightly coloured in solution so you have a obvious indicator if you're overdosing)

[Buccal]

Did these spots appear over time or were they always on the fish? I see the same spots on discus commonly but theyre on them from the start. They don't seem to grow in or out of the spots its just the unique colouring of that fish.

Sorry its not really an answer more an experience ive had with something that looks similar.

On discus, while its possible to have the same causes,,, it's not really the same cause.

Discus in general are locational crosses, then line bred to a classification standard (if not wild caught and so on).

But with discus, usually what is called peppering, is purely lack of of quality.

This peppering is considered as unwanted marking due to unwanted markings from the history of past used locations and non-crisp colors.

So it's genetic with discus, rather than environmental impact causing discoloration like healed areas from agression or food sources or microscopic parasite.

Definitely is a great topic of discussion,,, though it does exhaust pretty quick.......

[Buccal]

And lithoman, my opinion on those pics you posted.

The first one of dragon blood,,, I reckon is war wounds from scratching on body surface then healing back up.

The second of cobalt blue,,, I reckon is possibly either spiralina spots or microscopic parasite, which the latter is I believe are very extremely rare circumstances.(parasite).

[5uka]

Lithoman I have noticed this on 2 of my fish also. It has been there since I bought them. Could it be a birth mark or something like that?

[Bradc]

Im glad i found this thread ive had to dig through the forums to find it. My fuelleborni and my red empress have both started getting these. Im thinking if from the spirulina as ive dosed my tank with proziquantel and had no luck. Only other thing i could think of is maybe a metro based medication or maybe a copper sulphate solution. As well as trying to change diet but most foods i see have spirulina in them so im at a loss on what to change to. Also liho did you ever sort this issue id love to know if you did and how you did if you were able

[Bradc]

Litho*

[Ageofaquariums]

This has been a long term problem since we have kept rift lake cichlids in the hobby. Usually its from months or years in high nitrates. You can easily cut out a black spot and put under a microscope to rule out it being a parasite. Very unlikely though.

[fishdance]

Another experimental idea to help diagnosis would be to cut some of these black spots out.... if the spots are indeed from skin damage then doubtless, the black spots will return (bigger & darker) but if it's a parasite (unlikely IMO) then the wound will heal cleanly. 

You wouldn't need anesthetic for the procedure although that's easily done. A drop of super glue is good for suturing and stopping blood but again, not really necessary.

[Ageofaquariums]

The dark spots in Africans tend to be almost a metalic blue. I am unsure on the physiology behind it, but metabolic burn was the answer I received from an aquaculture guy. They obviously want to avoid it as it appears similar to digenetic trematode cysts, and they can devalue the fish sale price.