Bedge Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Hi Guys, Everything is going well in the tank, so I think we will be right to start getting 'proper' fish next weekend. Today we chucked in some Peacocks just to cycle it a bit more. So we have a standard four footer with a ahiem filter. These are the fish we like the look of: Colbalt Blue: 1 male - 2 to 3 female Electric Yellow: 1 male - 2 to 3 female Red Empress: 1 male - 2 to 3 female scrap Sulphur Crested Lithobate: 1 male OR 1 female scrap Hongi: 1 male. scrap Red Zebra: 1 male. scrap Tom has fallen in love with a Frontosa today, so we'll add that to the mix. scrap Does this look like a good mix? Is it to many? Or to little? Here's the tank: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Salita Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 What do you mean by aggressive? Hongi can hold thier own against the more aggressive mbuna. They tend to be a little territorial even when not breeding. The others will be less territorial when there are no females about. If by not aggressive you mean complete serenity, then most malawians probably aren't the best choice. They are generally always lively. If by not aggressive you mean not very likely to kill each other, your selection is fine. Hongi will need to be the boss though. So long as the others respect that, there will be peace. Your setup is good with lots of cover. You will not have any problems with your selection I dont think. CHeers, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Hey, thanks for that. Yeah - Im just not keen for a blood bath. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant265 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Hi Bedge, Why do you only want females of hongi and red zebra? And i wouldnt put a frontosa in there for a few reasons: 1) They get big so minimum tank size for frontosa should be 4x2x2 2) Diet is different to that of mbuna 3) Fronts are from Lake Tanganyika whereas mbuna from Lake Malawi therefor have different water requirements (ph/gh/kh) HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Salita Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 haha... you changed the list on me. . Agree with ant. Give the fronnie a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moop Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Fronts don't need a minimum of a 4x2x2. It all depends on how many you have at what size. I have kept fronts in a standard 4ft before. This is one thing that ticks me off about forums. People assume that there is a rule about everything and that rule is the only correct one. The Diet isnt a major factor either. If you feed them New Life Spectrum mixed in with some Spirulina/Veggie flake you will be fine. What you may find though is because frontosa are shy they may not get as much of the food. I have kept atleast 100 frontosa throughout my time in the hobby and they all have different temperaments. I have had some that are as keen as the Malawi's and will be up at the top of the tank eating. I have had some that will even feed out of your hand and i've also had some that are quite timid and will stay down the bottom and wait for food to drift down to them. Nice tank by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Salita Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Fair enough. Each to their own. Bedge has asked for peoples opinions. You can get ticked off about people having sharing their opinions and experience for which they were asked, in which case you can also get ticked off with yourself. Both ant and I have kept many frontosa as well, and the assumptions a you put it, are our opinions on what is ideal for a frontosa based on our own experience. Just as yours are what you have stated. I dont disagree with you moop. You assume I do. Frontosa can be like that, but its not a high percentage bet. The great thing about humans is that we all experience things differently. If we didnt, we would be unable to share as we do. or you can asses what people say and make an informed decision for yourself by listening to various differing opinions. Being able to share, is a wonderful gift. It does so much good in the world. Bedge now has more information than when he started, which is why he asked in the first place. You will noticed I asked for a little more information so as to give a better answer. Now that I have it, I can say that it is unlikely that there will be a blood bath with that mix. Its just that it seems to me that the frontosa is a little less compatible than the others. Some of the reasons are as ant has stated. There is also a possibility that it will be fine as you have stated. You assume that we assume. Its ok to give your opinion without going on the offensive with opinions you dont agree with. Anyway, good luck Bedge. It will be a lively tank thats for sure. Cheers, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi Bedge, Why do you only want females of hongi and red zebra? And i wouldnt put a frontosa in there for a few reasons: 1) They get big so minimum tank size for frontosa should be 4x2x2 2) Diet is different to that of mbuna 3) Fronts are from Lake Tanganyika whereas mbuna from Lake Malawi therefor have different water requirements (ph/gh/kh) HTH This is what I kinda thought re: the different requirements for the Fronny. My Fiance fell in love with one yesterday. I think it will also get to big for our tank. I think I had some ideals about what females and what males to get. But now i have confused myself. I guess I tend to think of females as more relaxed? Not as bossy? As apposed to a tank full of males pushing each other around. Although I dont know if this really makes any sense. Pls help! hahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 haha... you changed the list on me. . Agree with ant. Give the fronnie a miss. hahah, sorry - yeah, its a work in progress. Fronny is gone-skis. Ta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Fronts don't need a minimum of a 4x2x2. It all depends on how many you have at what size. I have kept fronts in a standard 4ft before. This is one thing that ticks me off about forums. People assume that there is a rule about everything and that rule is the only correct one. The Diet isnt a major factor either. If you feed them New Life Spectrum mixed in with some Spirulina/Veggie flake you will be fine. What you may find though is because frontosa are shy they may not get as much of the food. I have kept atleast 100 frontosa throughout my time in the hobby and they all have different temperaments. I have had some that are as keen as the Malawi's and will be up at the top of the tank eating. I have had some that will even feed out of your hand and i've also had some that are quite timid and will stay down the bottom and wait for food to drift down to them. Nice tank by the way Hey, thanks for all of this. I think I am feeling that the frontosa might get a bit big in the long run. I dont want to be having to get rid of fish once they get to big, i get attached ... easily! So I might put them on the back burner for the mean time. They a freekin cool though! Thanks for the comments about the tank. We are really pleased with it. Hope it will make a good home for some little guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Fair enough. Each to their own. Bedge has asked for peoples opinions. You can get ticked off about people having sharing their opinions and experience for which they were asked, in which case you can also get ticked off with yourself. Both ant and I have kept many frontosa as well, and the assumptions a you put it, are our opinions on what is ideal for a frontosa based on our own experience. Just as yours are what you have stated. I dont disagree with you moop. You assume I do. Frontosa can be like that, but its not a high percentage bet. The great thing about humans is that we all experience things differently. If we didnt, we would be unable to share as we do. or you can asses what people say and make an informed decision for yourself by listening to various differing opinions. Being able to share, is a wonderful gift. It does so much good in the world. Bedge now has more information than when he started, which is why he asked in the first place. You will noticed I asked for a little more information so as to give a better answer. Now that I have it, I can say that it is unlikely that there will be a blood bath with that mix. Its just that it seems to me that the frontosa is a little less compatible than the others. Some of the reasons are as ant has stated. There is also a possibility that it will be fine as you have stated. You assume that we assume. Its ok to give your opinion without going on the offensive with opinions you dont agree with. Anyway, good luck Bedge. It will be a lively tank thats for sure. Cheers, Jason Yes, agreed. There is one major thing that I have learned during my years as a fishy mumma, everyone has different experiences. I think some people can sometimes be a bit pushy with their ideals, but its only due to passion. Everyone has to be passionate about something. And as you say, everyone opinion is what I am after. And 24 hours after my original posts I am now armed with a lot more information which is helping greatly to make some (good) decisions. So thank you thank you to everyone who has replied so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashieFront Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Nice tank. A male hongi well have better colour than a female. and what about a Electric blue, I know there common but when there big they are a nice fish, if you just get males you well have better colour in ur tank, and at least they wont breed with different fish. Check out Auburn aquarium's big display tank you might get some ideas on colour combo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricyellowz Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Fronts don't need a minimum of a 4x2x2. It all depends on how many you have at what size. I have kept fronts in a standard 4ft before. This is one thing that ticks me off about forums. People assume that there is a rule about everything and that rule is the only correct one. Well you could also do the same thing with a Giant Gurami, put it in a 4ft but you wouldn't (I know this is an extreme example but couldnt think of another fish lol). The 'rule' as you call it is only a guideline and usually a good one to follow but there are always exceptions to these. A tank of the size in question as heavily decorated is not adiquate for Frontosa's (unless of course you only want them til they are 10cm or so). End Rant.... I would change the hongi and zebra to males instead of females so you can get the full colour out of the fish. Like mentioned above and electric blue would look nice or even try some C.Moori. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Nice tank. A male hongi well have better colour than a female. and what about a Electric blue Is a electric blue the same thing as a Cobolt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 I would change the hongi and zebra to males instead of females so you can get the full colour out of the fish. Like mentioned above and electric blue would look nice or even try some C.Moori. Ben List has been amended! I feel sad for girl fish, being a girl myself! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma2938 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 My wife started off with some zebras, the aquarium she bought it from told her it was a very peaceful fish LOL... yeah sure! We are still burdened with him all these years later... His name is stumpy (as that is all that was left of him after the fighting) but he hung on, the little fighter. He now takes up a whole tank, unable to be freindly to any other fish. Its kill or be killed with stumpy. My opinion is: for your first africans stay away from zebra's hongis, lombardoi, salousi, Oh dear!! If you want those small aggressive fish you need a fair few of them to disperse the aggression. (so I have found) C.Moori are very cool, and so are a lot of the Placidachromis species. Electric yellows are good and so are Labeotropheus trewavasae. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashieFront Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Heres some ideas, hope they help. Dont have any pic of electric blues, just do a google search. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorrylan Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 These are the fish we like the look of: Colbalt Blue: 1 male - 2 to 3 female Electric Yellow: 1 male - 2 to 3 female Hongi: 1 male. Red Zebra: 1 male. hi bec, I think I agree with the modifications you have done to your list but have some questions in regard to what it is you want from your fish, and are trying to achieve before I contribute further. What is it that you like about fish? is watching them breed and raise their young something you're hoping to achieve? are you a circle of life kinda person that is happy to have a mini-ecosystem where fish snacking on each other is ok or are you a sanctity of life kinda person where every fish is sacred no matter how many there are or how strangely mutated? Your previous/recently-departed fish appears to be relatively "pet-like", I presume that you are aware that the mix you are now talking about perhaps have more overall activity, their own behaviour patterns and potentially breeding (and predating) but will not have the same pet-personality that you have been experiencing. a) Are you hoping for the fish to breed? b) to have a tank with lots of colour and activity like a mini malawian reef? c) want a complete little eco-system packed into a single tank but hopefully coexisting happily? d) something else or a combination of all these? Not knowing the answers to such questions I can make some wild assumptions supplemented with general advice which we can tune with more feedback from you. There are suggestions in your list, the tank layout and your experience with a singular pet fish that you want it all :-) Unfortunately it is rather tricky to do so with a tank that size and with malawians. If you want breeding and fry raising I'd suggest thinning your list of fish down even more as the lonely male hongi and red zebra will eventually try to crossbreed with anything and everything in the tank. Consider a reresentative from the cynotilapia family instead if you absolutely have to have something extra and want a different set of colours, eg say a trio or quad of afra cobue. If you're looking for a wild mini-malawi reef I'd consider less females, more males and even more mbuna species. Your collection of fish and particularly the extra males suggests you're leaning this way but your tank decor does not (you'd want more rock and less pirate ship-type stuff to match their habitat) Once concrete suggestion I can make is to recommend considering demasoni as a substitute for the cobalt blues to fit your tank size as they're smaller yet more active and arguably at least if not more attractive (personal opinon of course but I only like cobalts up until they reach adulthood ). I'd stay away from electric blues and the hap' family generally in a tank that size with that much decor unless that circle-of-life thingy is your scene and you'd like an electric blue or dimi to keep the population from exploding. If you do want a representative from their world then something small and colourful like a family of protomelas steveni "taiwan reef" might suit though I haven't seen any around lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Ohh! What are the ones on the top photo? Is the one in the front a hongi? Whats the blue one beneath it. Yes - I will have all of them I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashieFront Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 First pic, the 3 colourful fish are, Afra cobue (black strips with yellow through he's body) Below the hongi is a mbamba bottom left (the one thats blue with black strips), and the one behind the hongi you really cant see him i forget his name. someone esle might know, and yes thats a hongi, thats him in the second photo in the middle down the bottom showing his colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 What is it that you like about fish? is watching them breed and raise their young something you're hoping to achieve? This would be a nice bonus if I could manage to make it happen, but not to focused on it. are you a circle of life kinda person that is happy to have a mini-ecosystem where fish snacking on each other is ok or are you a sanctity of life kinda person where every fish is sacred no matter how many there are or how strangely mutated? Im not to keen on having them munching on each other. A peaceful tank would be nice, but I love the spunk the cichlids have. Even the spastic little peacocks we have at the moment are proving interesting! Your previous/recently-departed fish appears to be relatively "pet-like", I presume that you are aware that the mix you are now talking about perhaps have more overall activity, their own behaviour patterns and potentially breeding (and predating) but will not have the same pet-personality that you have been experiencing. Yes, Hunky was very special. He was actually amazing. I dont know how I ended up with such a cool fish. It was heatbreaking to loose my 'dog in water', so I defiantly don't want to go down that path again. I don't think any fish could beat him in personality, and im not going to try. So the community is what I am defiantly after. Ohhhh how I miss my Hunky fish! a) Are you hoping for the fish to breed? Would be nice if it happened. b) to have a tank with lots of colour and activity like a mini malawian reef? Yes, would love lots of prettyness! c) want a complete little eco-system packed into a single tank but hopefully coexisting happily? That would be lovely, thanks! d) something else or a combination of all these? Not sure what else there is? lol if you want breeding and fry raising I'd suggest thinning your list of fish down even more as the lonely male hongi and red zebra will eventually try to crossbreed with anything and everything in the tank. This is what confuses me. So far I am going with a few Cobalts and a few electric yellows. From what I gather, they will go well together. How the species interact with each other is lost on me. Does the general rule go for every male get a few females? Is it bad form to just have one male of this another of that, a female of something else etc? Consider a reresentative from the cynotilapia family instead if you absolutely have to have something extra and want a different set of colours, eg say a trio or quad of afra cobue. Will look in to them on the morrow! If you're looking for a wild mini-malawi reef I'd consider less females, more males and even more mbuna species. Your collection of fish and particularly the extra males suggests you're leaning this way but your tank decor does not (you'd want more rock and less pirate ship-type stuff to match their habitat) hahaha, the pirate ship is left over from Mr Hunky, he once fit in it. Once. Once concrete suggestion I can make is to recommend considering demasoni as a substitute for the cobalt blues to fit your tank size as they're smaller yet more active and arguably at least if not more attractive (personal opinon of course but I only like cobalts up until they reach adulthood ). Never heard of demasoni - will check them out tomorrow as well! All blue fish just look blue to me, at this stage! I'd stay away from electric blues and the hap' family generally in a tank that size with that much decor unless that circle-of-life thingy is your scene and you'd like an electric blue or dimi to keep the population from exploding. If you do want a representative from their world then something small and colourful like a family of protomelas steveni "taiwan reef" might suit though I haven't seen any around lately Im still trying to figure out if electric blues and cobalts are the same thing. I guess, they aren't. Thank you so so so so so much for taking all this time to help me. You're truly amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorrylan Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Ohh! What are the ones on the top photo? Is the one in the front a hongi? Whats the blue one beneath it. just based on the photo I'd say yes that's a hongi (male), I'd guess the blue on is a red top black bar but not confidently (there are a lot of similar pseudotropheus) the one in front and below the hongi is a male Cynotilapia afra cobue the one below that is ummm... err perhaps a maleri gold peacock? personally I'd recommend staying away from bigger pseudotropheus for your tank. Hongi are relatively placid for their size so are perhaps an exception but rtbb's can be pretty boisterous and you don't really have the room to bump the population up to dissipate aggression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedge Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 P.S. I might just add, I want small fish. Nothing very big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma2938 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hey Laurie, Haps (do they even call them that anymore ) are quite peaceful wouldnt you say laurie? Thats why I suggested them. I was thinking, Placidachromis Electra, Placidachromis Phenochilus, Copadochromis Borylei (croc rock) Its a 4ft tank so that should be enough room I would think? Bedge, Malawi fish are quite easy o breed so provided you give them the chance they most likely will. And thats where all the fun starts. You might be wondering why everybody is so vocal about this fish going with that fish and so on. Its because getting the fish to spawn is a lot of fun. When they spawn they will put on a real show for you (if your lucky to catch them in the act) and then you get to watch them carry the fry, and then one day you will be looking at your tank and see little fish simming around and its really cool. Alot of the time thats why people are "you cant put that fish with this fish" because from their experience they know it will make things difficult down the track. All the fish that have been mentioned are good in there own right. And you will work it out, and if you get a fish that does not fit in with the rest of the crew or you get bored with them, you can always sell them or swap them here on the forum. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowie Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 if its a display tank your best to stock it with males and overstocking helps to spread the aggression if you want them to breed id stick to 3 species in a standard 4 footer as for the hongi if you provide this fish with females its going to go on a rampage my mate recently had one kill a 13cm red devil but if there a must for you id try limit it to 2 males of each species and alot of females to spread aggression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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