Want to buy ready to use water for teras

[Katie]

Hi guys,

I've bought a fully equiped aquarium from pet expo. Went to aquarium shop, where I've been given instructions on how to get my first fishes. One week later I took water for tests to the shop, shop assistant said I am ready and I've got my first 4 cardinal tetras. All of them has died within 3-4 hours. I have tried another 3 batches of fishes, meanwhile adjusting ph and water temperature, with few days intervals. Yet all my fishes died within few hours. therefore, I was wondering if there is a pre-packed water for sale for different type of fishes.

If anyone heard of such water product, could you please let me know what is the brand of the company producing it and name of such a product?

If you have any ideas why all my fish died even though shops say ph is ok, I would be very happy to here from you. So far I have tried neon teras and cardinal tetras, as I've been advised that there good fish for beginners.

Cheers

[electricyellowz]

Try some guppies/goldfish just until you get your tank cycled.

ALso did the shop check your ammonia,nitrate and nitrite?

[Josh]

Testing Ph on a new tank will only tell you that the Ph is right.

you need to make sure that the tank is cycled properly before adding any fish. There are heaps of topics on here about how to cycle your tank before you add fish.

And to answer your question there isnt anyone who sells pre-packed ready to go water

Josh

[electricyellowz]

If you wanted (and had large enough containers) you could ask the aquariam shop if they would give you some water from their pre-cycled tanks or even some filter media (filter wool etc)

[mianos]

Or get someone to give you their tankwater when they do a water change and a filter element if they have multiple filter boxes. You got something that can hold 70% as much water as your tank and fit in the car?

[Katie]

Thanks for answers, guys.

So do I understands it correctly, that if the tank is not cycled the fish will die within hours?

I tested ammonia before adding the fish, the test was 0, as no living being inhibit the tank .

The ph has been adjusted to be around 6.6-7.0 and notheless poor cardinal tetras die! They seem okey at the start, but as the time goes by, they start acting stangely and look stressed. As 3 batches died, I start to suspect that the water is somehow poisonous.

[hobcas]

3-4 hours seems quick to me if ammonia is 0 , hows the water temperature?

What else have you got in the tank, wood, ornaments etc

If at first you don't suceed try try again

[Pik0]

Mate if you can get someone who already has an established tank see if you can get some of there filter media. Put it in your filter and give it about 2 - 3 weeks.

Get your amonia tested after a while it should be at 0 your nitrates (or nitriates, I cant remember which way they go, someone will correct me) should be at 0 and the other one should be a number > 0. Thats when you tank is cycled and the fish won't die.

Its a bit of a rough description but thats about it.

Stay with it, its a very rewarding experience.

[THEFATCATFISH]

OK now you are using dechlorinator when you add new water? Also what temperature is tank at?

This is something I wrote up as a handout to give to new pet fish customers. It's rather old now.... but found it while working on something else and got nostalgic... so here it is, the perfect introduction to keeping aquariums for anybody... lol. But seriously this things big brother is a much better read.

************************************

Greetings friend!

Fish truly are the one pet to rule them all. With clean warm water and good food, they will relax you as only a tank of happy fish can. The possibilities are huge; no other type of pet gives you the variety. A tranquil planted tank with Amazon neons and discus or a freshwater reef Malawi cichlid display? Personality plus armored and slimy cats or a nemo and crew reef hide away? Strange humped earth eaters or happy to see you scats? A million rainbow guppies or a serious mangrove jack tank?

One of the keys to happy fish is patience and research. Technology and knowledge have advanced far in recent years. Aquarium heaters give us stable temperatures. Quality modern fish foods such as spirulina, bloodworm, brineshrimp and complete diet pellets and flakes provide good nutrition with ease. The real break through however came with the discovery of the nitrogen cycle. Combined with modern filters and regular partial water changes an understanding of the nitrogen cycle puts you in a good position to enjoy a tank of happy fish. Take your time, things may seem complicated at first but when done step by step and with a bit of common sense the perfect dream tank is not out of reach.

Choosing a setup

It is best to work out the type of fish you wish to keep before buying a tank, filters, heaters, lights etc. Different fish prefer different setups. Size plays a large part in how happy your fish are going to be. It is best to buy a tank suitable for the adult fish even if the young you are buying are small at the time. Healthy fish grow fast and upgrading aquariums usually ends up more costly than buying a suitable one first off. The only downside to bigger tanks is that they cost more! If the fish you like is from fast flowing streams, then a filter with strong flow is going to be best, a fighter fish from a stagnant swamp would prefer a much slower flowing filter! You should also look at how much food you will need to feed the tank as you will need enough filtration to handle the fish poo produced. If your fish prefers warmer water then a heater is going to be a needed purchase. Most tropicals do best at 25degC although some prefer it a bit warmer. A seperate thermometer is a must, heaters do occasional stick on or break.

Coldwater fish don't usually need a heater in this area. When choosing gravel consider what pH your fish prefer. Shellgrit and marble will both keep your tank pH around 7.4 to 7.6 usually. This is handy for most fish but other gravel should be used for discus or tetra who prefer more acidic water. Good strong lighting is needed by most plants to grow in an aquarium. Less light is needed to just show off fishes colours however so if a fishtank is going to be mainly plants spend more on lighting, if mainly fish get enough lighting to show off your fishes colours.

The Nitrogen Cycle

Properly cycling your tank is essential. "Cycling" your aquarium basically means growing beneficial bacteria and some fungi in the filter before you add your fish. These helpful bacteria and fungi break down fish poo and transform it into a form that is non toxic to fish in low to medium levels. They live everywhere in the tank but especially inside filters where there is lots of flowing oxygenated water and surface area to grow on. Getting the different types established in your filter is the secret to easy fish keeping as they will consume the things that cause other things like cloudy water bacteria or green water algae blooms. Improperly cycled aquariums can also quickly build up toxic concentrations of fish waste and kill its inhabitants.

A build up of untreated fish waste chemicals is the number 1 reason for the death of pet fish. The good news is, a cycled aquarium is a LOT less work. If you can keep your living filter alive it will keep your fish alive.

We measure how well filter bacteria are established by measuring bacteria poo chemicals in the water. So to get the ball rolling the first thing we do is add some hardy fish such as danio's, white clouds or in large tanks goldfish. By adding only a few when you feed them their poo will be diluted and hopefully not reach toxic levels too quickly. See the link on fishless cycling for another method. Fish poo breaks down to ammonia. With no ammonia there will be no bacterial growth! Every time you add more fish the ammonia output of the tank will increase. Remember to give the filter bacteria a week or so to breed and catch up to the poo for best results. Your aim is too keep a ballance between waste output (fish poo) and waste disposal (filter bacteria). So the first bacteria eat ammonia and poo out nitrite. This process needs oxygen to happen and when oxygen is low it happens much much slower. Ammonia is VERY toxic and kills fish in very small amounts especially at higher pH's. Nitrite is slightly less toxic to fish although worse at lower pH's, as a stop gap, aquarium salt can be added to the aquarium at 1 tablespoon per 20 Litres to reduce it's toxicity. The next bacteria eat nitrite and poo out nitrate. This process also requires oxygen and will happen slower if oxygen is lower in the water. Nitrate is only harmful in quite high levels, and is useful to aquatic plants as a fertiliser. When we test aquarium water, a cycled tank will have 0ppm of ammonia and 0ppm of nitrite. By processing fish poo into nitrates we can have 100 times more fish waste in the water and still have healthy fish!! Ammonia and Nitrite are common causes of sick or dead fish, cloudy water, algae blooms and bad smells. Protect your bacteria by dechlorinating when you water change, leaving filters on 24hours a day, never changing all your filter sponge at one time, and rinsing filter sponges in a bucket of water drawn from the aquarium, never under the tap! To speed up the cycle there are many commercial products like cycle and amtrite down that contain millions of bacteria ready to hatch. You can also add -> water, plants, gravel, filter squeezings or (best) a piece of filter sponge from a mature tank. This will help 'seed' the tank with helpful microbes. Liverock will help in marine tanks.

Water Changes

While aquarium plants that receive enough light, will be removing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate from the water as they grow, it is difficult to have enough plants to prevent nitrates building up if you have more than a few fish! Likewise in marine tanks live rock and deep sand beds will consume nitrates out of the water by turning it into gas or algae growth. Even in lightly stocked tanks or ponds evaporation can concentrate toxins in water meaning you need to remove more water before you can add top up water to ensure you are diluting dissolved toxins. Water changes keep the pH stable and reduce the need to add supplements. So we need to partial water change, always remember the solution to pollution is dilution! If you try to use pH changes as a key to do large infrequent water changes the damage is often done before you have a chance to act. The smallest amounts at the most frequent interval possible

Always use dechlorinator to remove chlorine and chloramines from new water that will kill your fish and filter bacteria!

With light stocking a new tank may not need a partial water change for a month. A medium stocked tank may do well on a 25% change every fortnight. A well stocked cycled aquarium will do well with a 25% weekly partial water change. This partial water change will dilute dissolved toxins in the water and keep fish healthy! If your fish don't seem hungry or alert and happy, do a partial water change. If they react well then you need to do them more regular. The aim is to water change before dissolved waste in the water damages fish health. These changes will also trigger growth spurts and breeding activity. Using a gravel vacuum while removing the water will remove even more waste. If your filters water flow has slowed down, this is a good time to clean the filters. All filter parts used to house bacteria like sponges, noodles, bio balls or wheels should be cleaned with water from the aquarium. The helpful bacteria is very sensitive and does not like sudden changes. Water from the tap may contain chlorine or worse for fish (and likely these days) chloramine which will kill all your helpful bacteria and UNCYCLE your tank! Eeek! I clean my tanks using a bucket of water drawn from the aquarium the filter comes from, if you have any cuts or open wounds wear gloves. A few good squeezes should get most of the blocking skunge out of the sponge while leaving most of the helpful bacteria alive on the sponges. If you have no sponge in your filter, then only ever replace half your filter floss at a time, that way enough should survive to repopulate the new stuff. Still give the floss you keep a squeeze out to keep water flowing fast though it. Feed lightly after filter cleans, the bacteria populations will be reduced and need to be built back up. Only cleaning part of a filter at a time will also help keep the populations more stable. Water from cleaning filters makes excellent liquid food for garden plants, high in nitrates for growth and phosphates for flowers! Doing more than a 50% water change is risky as the pH and temperature changes can be too sudden and big for fish. If you do want to do large changes age, dechlorinate , heat and match pH of the new water to prevent shocking your fish. Chemical filters such as carbon, charcoal and products like ammonia blocks and dechorinators like prime will remove harmful toxins or medications and can help remove unsightly smells and tints to the water. They should be used to compliment the critical live bacterial filter that processes the waste and the finishing finer floss used to remove suspended particles from water returning to the aquarium from the filter. The finer floss as well as the filter sponge is excellent at concentrating waste. Clean these lightly and often in aquarium water to safely remove large amounts of waste and keep up water flow through your filters. Aim filter outputs where they will disturb the water surface and your fish and bacteria will get lots of the oxygen they need to live long happy lives.

Want to do less water changes? Feed high quality foods that allow you to feed less, don't stock aquaiums too densly as more fish equals more waste to dilute, live plants will absorb nitrates as they grow and can in lightly stocked tanks reduce the frequency of water changes, larger tanks can also go longer as they dilute the waste with their sheer volume of water.

Algae Problems

Algae don't usually kill fish, in fact it removes toxins from the water! Almost all uncycled tanks have algae blooms. Mustard brown blooms or even bright green water. It is trivial to worry about them until the nitrate cycle is complete in most cases. If the water is free of ammonia and nitrite, test nitrates. If over 40ppm a water change may help. Excessive light is also often a problem. Put aquarium lights on timers, block direct sunlight or tint the water blue. It may be worth testing the water for phosphates. Some foods contain higher amounts and can trigger blooms if over fed. Phosphate can be 'locked' with water treatments slowing algae growth. Or trace elements can be fed to aquarium plants, so they can out compete the algae. Fish such as bristlenose, otocinclus and pleco catfish, golden suckers, flagfish or even snails and shrimps can be excellent algae eaters. There are also many products available that will kill algae. It is important to spot the cause of the bloom though to prevent it coming straight back.

Cloudy Water

Often following setting up a new tank, overfeeding, an un-noticed fish death or a filter cleaned too hard or in chlorinated tap water. It can also happen when all of the filter sponge/floss is replaced at once or when gravel is changed. The bacteria that cause cloudy water eat the same thing as the filter bacteria and will not be able to bloom as long as the filter can handle the amount of food being fed. Blooms can be unsightly with fish appearing in and out of the fog. They can also be dangerous as the bacteria consume much of the oxygen in the water. A product helpful with cloudy water is geo-liquid, often giving great results.

Test: Ammonia ppm Nitrites ppm Nitrates ppm pH

Test: Ammonia ppm Nitrites ppm Nitrates ppm pH

Test: Ammonia ppm Nitrites ppm Nitrates ppm pH

Test: Ammonia ppm Nitrites ppm Nitrates ppm pH

Desired Results

Very toxic 0ppm, very toxic 0ppm, toxic if more than 40ppm, stable pH

Remember, process waste into less toxic chemicals with filters. Dilute the toxins with partial water changes. Always use dechlorinator on new water. Wash filters with aquarium water. Keep the water a stable temperature with a heater and monitor it with a separate thermometer. Feed a variety of quality foods and most important of all.. Watch your fish!!

It is a great thing to create your own little world in a glass box. As the owner try to recognize problems or look ahead to see where they may occur. That way you can act promptly and save your fish. Test kits are very handy and take much of the guess work out of fish keeping. Fish behavior is a big give away that something is wrong. Healthy fish are usually always hungry.. If they are acting strange check the tank for stopped filters, temperature, uneaten food or dead fish. If in doubt partial water change some water out. Fish will try to hide any problems they have until they are very unwell and can hide them no more.

Last of all, read all you can. Fish are amazing creatures, you have read through all this now you can really get to the good stuff and start planning that dream tank. There is a link below to help you out with fishless cycling but google can find anything.

www.tanked.netfirms.com/fishless.html

Rock on!

Hope that helps a bit.

Donny

[Katie]

3-4 hours seems quick to me if ammonia is 0 , hows the water temperature?

What else have you got in the tank, wood, ornaments etc

If at first you don't suceed try try again

I tried with 3 or 4 batches of cardinal tetras, and all of them died within hours.

My biggest concern is that they die so quickly. If it was day or two then it might've been ammonia/nitrite poisoning, but they all seem to die even when ammonia reading is 0.

Water temperature is about 28, heater is off - it just does not go down. The tanks has a plastic plant in it, which I beleive creates enought shading area. There's also a big decorative "lamp" inside, and a decorative wall. Can any of these be somehow harmfull?

[Katie]

OK now you are using dechlorinator when you add new water?

I used it inititally, when filling the tank with water, but as no water changes has been made - there's been no need for more conditioner/dechlorinator

[D6C1]

Hi Katie,

I can give you some water if you got something to carry it in... you can have up to 300L :-)

I am around 10min away from you.. PM sent.

[hobcas]

28 is on the high side for Tetras I believe they prefer something more like 24.

Tetras will not tolerate dramatic changes to their environment, so what is ypur LFS water temp?

With this in mind, you will need to introduce these fish to their new home patiently. Allow the bag to float in the aquarium and replace ten percent of the water from the bag with water from your aquarium every five minutes for a period of at least forty minutes.

By easing them into their new environment with this method your fish will aclimatise hopefully without mortality.

[Momo]

if it is a cycling problem i.e new tank syndrome get a product called "sera- nitrivec" it is a fantastic product, and follow the instructions.

[fishdance]

There is a lot of confusing advice and mis-information being given to a new and confused fishkeeper although it is all well intentioned.

If you have tried several batches of cardinals and all have died within hours it will almost certainly be a toxin. Since you have neutralised, then it wont be chlorine. I suggest you replace all the water and redose with neutraliser checking the dosage instructions. Have a good talk with your aquarium store too so they can help you better. Obtaining established tank water would be beneficial for both beneficial bacteria and eliminating variables from the mystery. You could also try with a single test fish next time for less anxiety. Your aquarium store may be able to loan you a platy or goldfish which you can return later.

If the fish dies again with hours then look for contamination sources by elimination. Is tank made with fish safe silicon? How did you clean up the tank when setting up? Try removing all ornaments and add them in slowly, avoid insect sprays near tank and airpump, etc etc. Having an experienced fish keeper visit or showing us/ the shop a photo of your tank may reveal some problems.

Anyway the first step is to replace all the water and try again. I hope you persevere.

[D6C1]

Anyway the first step is to replace all the water and try again. I hope you persevere.

Interesting... How about the filters? Forgot about this? They would still have contamination in them. And surely you wouldn't go from scratch. You want to find the source of the problem.

[fishdance]

Just playing the law of averages. Replacing all the water will sufficiently dilute the supposed toxin to make the tank safe enough. Plus its the obvious variable which has never changed.

IF the test fish still dies rapidly then the need to problem shoot arises because the supposed toxin is being introduced to the tank still. ie its not just a contaminant but something is leeching or introducing toxin still. The first case doesnt require finding the source (if the problem is fixed) since it could be almost anything. The second case definitely does.

[oakes]

There is a lot of confusing advice and mis-information being given to a new and confused fishkeeper although it is all well intentioned.

If you have tried several batches of cardinals and all have died within hours it will almost certainly be a toxin. Since you have neutralised, then it wont be chlorine. I suggest you replace all the water and redose with neutraliser checking the dosage instructions. Have a good talk with your aquarium store too so they can help you better. Obtaining established tank water would be beneficial for both beneficial bacteria and eliminating variables from the mystery. You could also try with a single test fish next time for less anxiety. Your aquarium store may be able to loan you a platy or goldfish which you can return later.

If the fish dies again with hours then look for contamination sources by elimination. Is tank made with fish safe silicon? How did you clean up the tank when setting up? Try removing all ornaments and add them in slowly, avoid insect sprays near tank and airpump, etc etc. Having an experienced fish keeper visit or showing us/ the shop a photo of your tank may reveal some problems.

Anyway the first step is to replace all the water and try again. I hope you persevere.

Sound advice, though replacing all the water may make it difficult right now to identify the problem which may re-occur. I am not convinced that the tank was cycled after only a week. Keep checking for ammonia and nitrite regularly. Are you sure your test kits are reliable and not out of date?

[Th0mas]

IMO, can you provide more details to this "all-in-one" tank?

Like:

How much water does it hold?

Does it have a filter? What type of filter?

What is loaded in the filter?

Is there any gravel in the tank? If there is - what kind of gravel and where are they from?

Any rocks, woods, ornaments?

3-4 hours in loosing all the tetra is much too quick if there's enough volume of water in tank. The cardinal tetra can handle higher temperature (as high as 30 once I've kept them), although they won't be happy, but will not died within 3-4 hours.

Have you acclimatise your fish before introducing them into the tank? Is there much different between the water from where the fish came from versus your tank?

Ammonia shouldn't be an issue as the water pH is < 7 (acidic). So this shouldn't be the cause (having the tank cycled is important but don't think this is the cause of death).

[Katie]

Tank is AquaOne 380 and it holds 34L.

Have you acclimatise your fish before introducing them into the tank? Is there much different between the water from where the fish came from versus your tank?

Yes, for a period of up to 1 - 1.5 hours. I tested the ph in the bag and the tank, color readings were same...

Filter is a standard one, Don't really know what's inside, but presumably coal.

I'll try removing the decorative lamp next time, just in case. I will also get a new filter so it can be taken out of the equation.

PS

Is there a way to attach actual images to the post, rather than links?

[Th0mas]

PS

Is there a way to attach actual images to the post, rather than links?

You can create an album in ACE, the post link to images from there.

[Katie]

Does someone know what this is:

It is some sort of thin coating, rubbered/plastic parts are particularly affected - head of the heater, wires...

[D6C1]

re that heater tip.. is it slimy? can u wipe it off with your fingers? or is it the actual rubber thats deteriorated?

[Katie]

re that heater tip.. is it slimy? can u wipe it off with your fingers? or is it the actual rubber thats deteriorated?

Yeap, it is easily wiped with a finger and it is slimy indeed.

[THEFATCATFISH]

Just a bit of harmless algae/bacteria on the heater no problem.

I don't agree that removing all the water is going to solve this.

Most important, HOW DO THE FISH DIE?

I mean do they go to the top or bottom?

Do they gasp or do death spirals?

As someone mentioned cardinals do fine at 30 degC if the temp goes up gradual and not sudden.

As the tank is only a week old and is using carbon based filter inserts that pretty much knocks most toxins out of equation.

Going to have to lean towards nitrite poisoning here myself. Nitrite is more toxic at lower pH levels, smashes tetra and ya is pretty typical for a tank the age of yours. Often fish with nitrite poisoning will sit on the bottom of the tank and gasp.

Its a nice tank though. I would slow right down. Don't buy new stuff for this tank!!! Ya can't buy time in a bottle!!

If you want to buy anything get an ammonia and nitrite test kit. Just because ammonia had dropped to 0ppm means NOTHING! If you had not been feeding the tank the bacteria would have no food to establish the colony with. You put in fish, add food and ya the minimal bacteria established would be overwhelmed.

Really not trying to confuse over what is a small simple aquarium, in short the filter insert does not have enough brown sludge on it. This is not just a problem now at the setup but will also be a problem when time comes to swap over the cartridge. I reccomend simply getting a bit of coarse sponge that can be simply squeezed out in a bucket of water drawn from the aquarium and then reused. The cartridges are expensive so a reusable bit of sponge is a good cash saver. At the very very least wipe the brown sludge from old filter cartridge onto the new one.