BaZ Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 which goldfish would you rather be? the one that only lasts a few seconds before hes gulped down by a jack. or the one that gets poisoned by ammonia or some other toxic chemicals getting into the water because the person who buys it doesnt have a clue..? Yes, we've had this argument before also. You'll find the same applies for us humans too. Accidental death is often a longer and more painful death than an intentional killing. You'll need to lobby a different organisation though if you want to change our murder laws I'd suggest tackling the RSPCA first, and if you are successful you can move onto the murder issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunnel Rat Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Seeing that my name has been mentioned in this thread I thought I would add to it The main concern I had was the way photos were deleted with no consultation at all just like Alex has stated. In my case I thought it was quite obvious that one would not feed live mice to one's fish I was wrong . But with the new rules this has now all been sorted out. Thanks Matty I would just like to add this was settled with the moderators but now it is settled with all the members. thx Rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slack Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 hi guys, my question is, what about the humble brine shrimp? I found an old bottle of dried brine shrimp eggs dated 1998 . I was going to throw them out but decided to try my luck and added a few to water and was surprised that they hatched. raised them to adult size and then fed them off to my fish. would some of you consider that cruel or just part of the food chain. after all it was a living creature. all in all a very good topic. thankyou. cheers slack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 Oh they're an invertebrate so they have no feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Its not a vertabrate. Hence doesnt apply. Also the RSPCA doesnt deem it cruel. If its smart enough to dodge a net or attempted capture then its cruel. Crustations that gather towards a glowing light need not apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatoscarlover Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Firstly ACE is against the use of live feeders for virtually all cichlids (it's simply unnecessary). If you put aside the issues of animal cruelty - there's a real risk you can infect your fish with pathogens or parasites via feeders. Feeder fish are frequently poorly cared (another ethical reason not to support the practice) and for these reasons make a very poor choice of meal for most cichlids for this reason. Let us decide that! The feeders i buy and i think a majority of people buy are not obviously infected with disease, if they were we wouldnt buy them. To say "Feeder fish are frequently poorly cared " and might carry "pathogens or parasites" is a ridiculous generalisation, the same thing could be said about guppies, angels, Neon's & comets but we are not going to ban the discussion or photo's containing them because some people mistreat them. Putting the blame on the RSPCA for ACE banning feeders is a cop out. There are 10-15 other fish forums in Australia and off the top of my head i cant think of one of them that ban's feeders because the RSPCA might shut them down. Even if the RSPCA did try and shut ACE down for promoting animal cruelty (which they wont), im tipping youll find 14 new friends to stand up for you. Besides, the day the RSPCA do anything usefull about cruelty let alone the cruelty of a goldfish i will bear my bum in Bourke Street..... Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Its not a vertabrate. Hence doesnt apply. Also the RSPCA doesnt deem it cruel. If its smart enough to dodge a net or attempted capture then its cruel. Crustations that gather towards a glowing light need not apply ever tried catching beach worms?... now they can avoid attempted capture, but are invertabrates and yet perfectly fine to feed? how should i humanely euthenase the gambusia choking our wetlands so as to feed them to my australian bass? Freezing them like cane toads? totally see where the forum stands on this issue legally and I commend them, however if anyone has some advise for us do-gooders ridding our waterways of damaging exotic pests and would like to feed them to our fish rather than the grass? how do we do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modda Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 ok i am confused about what this is all about the forum has rules so be it. look i will put my hand up and say yes i feed my festae pair live feeders once a month as a treat so what thats what i do they like it and it keeps my festaes happy just because there are rules on the forum dont get ya nickers in a knot rules are rules they are there to protect either the integrity of the forum or the members of the forum. now lets all go feed our fish or do a water change or something to take our minds of this topic JUST MY 2 CENTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 however if anyone has some advise for us do-gooders ridding our waterways of damaging exotic pests and would like to feed them to our fish rather than the grass? how do we do this? I think you have missed the point of this thread. Its about the rules of discussing such topics on the forum, not should you or shouldnt you do it. Some senior figures have already hinted to using feeders themselves, and what you do in the safety of your own home/garage is none of anyone elses business (Im speaking in regards to feeders, this is not an invitation for someone to say "but what if they are electroshocking their E. Yellows to enhance the colours ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 ok i am confused about what this is all about the forum has rules so be it. look i will put my hand up and say yes i feed my festae pair live feeders once a month as a treat so what thats what i do they like it and it keeps my festaes happy just because there are rules on the forum dont get ya nickers in a knot rules are rules they are there to protect either the integrity of the forum or the members of the forum. now lets all go feed our fish or do a water change or something to take our minds of this topic JUST MY 2 CENTS Thanks for the support modda I think you'll find Huzzy and Ash are really just stirring the pot, playing devils advocate and looking for a bite. It's a strange sense of humour these 2 guys have, and it's a little off-beat so don't be surprised if you look and look and look but still cannot see the funny side. I must be a weirdo like them, because they have certainly brought a smile to my face with this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Morelia Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 It certainly put a smile on my face when I first saw Ash had posted this topic too I'll steer clear of this one "Rules are made to be broken" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I must be a weirdo like them, because they have certainly brought a smile to my face with this thread Thank you thank you, im here all week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 "Rules are made to be broken" Exactly. Rules on the forum may or may not reflect people's behaviour in real life. They are forum rules, for the good of the forum. For example. I enforce a 'no swearing' rule on the forum, however those of you who know me in person have probably noticed that I have trouble NOT swearing I work in an industry where swearing is a part of everyday life and am always getting in trouble at home for swearing when the kids are around But on the forum I am an angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pride Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 So is it a law that you cannot feed live fish as food? I'm stumped because every single LFS I have been to in Sydney have a tank with a sign "feeder fish" naming some silly price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 So is it a law that you cannot feed live fish as food? I'm stumped because every single LFS I have been to in Sydney have a tank with a sign "feeder fish" naming some silly price? This may answer your question They are forum rules, for the good of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunnel Rat Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Forget it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 So is it a law that you cannot feed live fish as food? I'm stumped because every single LFS I have been to in Sydney have a tank with a sign "feeder fish" naming some silly price? There isnt a big enough smiley of a guy hitting his head against a wall to respond to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSAKA Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Anyway each to their own....but i love tucking into a feed of ribs and rump, whole bird, spit roasts etc.... Yes, but do you love tucking into a feed of live cow, live chicken etc? On a trip to Japan once i ate live fish sashimi....i think it was a flounder of some type Asia seems to like their food as fresh as possible lol. I think the point of this topic was more the taboo of feeders on this forum, not the actual rule itself. Rules are rules but it was just strange how you couldn't whisper the word feeder without getting shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's Ok to DISCUSS feeders, it's just not ok to show pictures of a fish getting killed by another fish. I guess it's all perspective. Some people here might object to seeing a picture of a lion ripping the throat out of an antelope, even though it's what happens in the wild. I think the point is, the moderators here don't have a problem with people giving feeders to their fish, they just don't need the potential hassle of the minority objecting to seeing it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modda Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 hey baz i have the same problem with the swearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pride Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 So is it a law that you cannot feed live fish as food? I'm stumped because every single LFS I have been to in Sydney have a tank with a sign "feeder fish" naming some silly price? There isnt a big enough smiley of a guy hitting his head against a wall to respond to this one. Ummm Huzzy, My post is questioning is it an actual law and if not which no one has said in the thread how do LFS get away with it so quit your whinging. Very much becoming less enthusiastic to browse this forum like I used to..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modda Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 ok now children no fighting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzy Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Theres no law my friend. The RSPCA may frown upon it, but parliment are yet to sign off on anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZ Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Ok I think this thread has just about run it's course. It seems that every day it is left active brings a few more bites for our comedic duo and friends I'm going to lock this, because although I am certain a lot of the discussion was meant in jest/sarcasm, there are also members taking it the wrong way and getting all serious about the subject. Let me please clarify... We at ACE do not promote the feeding of live vertebrates to other animals. This includes discussions which promote such a process, and also photographs of such a process. If you are sharing a photograph of a snake devouring a dead rat, you will need to advise the members that you purchased the rat as a dead item specifically for the purpose of feeding the snake. Our stance on this issue is for two reasons. One reason is the obvious health risk to your pets when you feed them a live animal, and the other reason is that we do not wish to go against the Animal Cruelty guidelines offered by the RSPCA. Please note that this is a guideline, not a law, but it has helped us decide where to draw the line here on the forum. Please also remember that this is a forum rule, for the benefit of the forum. We are not preaching to you about what you may or may not be doing in your own homes. If anyone needs this to be clarified in greater depth for them, contact me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeW Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Andy - I think the tone of your post is particularly aggressive - I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve by writing in this way. I dont think there is anything ridiculous about the generalisation re: feeders introducing pathogens or parasites. Moreover - I stand by everything I said in my previous post. The addition of ANY live fish to a tank runs the risk of introducing disease (that's why those keepers with common sense have quarentine tanks!). This risk is amplified when the fish are poorly looked after - something that occurs commonly with feeders - which are frequently kept in overstocked, poorly cared for aquariums. The increase in risk is common sense - the smart money is on pelleted foods. regarding your specific comments about the RSPCA and me "copping out" - you've a choice here at ACE. You can use ACE and abide by the Terms of Use OR You can decide not to post here, either is fine with me - but there isnt a third option. It's like people who dont like seeing nudity but wont turn off the TV. Choose. The rules on other fish forums are totally irrelevant to this debate. It's completely illogical to assume the correctness of a decision has anything to do with who applies/enforces the rule. 90% of americans may (for example) believe Australia is a small country next to Germany - it doesnt make them any "righter". David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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