I'm guessing it should be safe to make up a 1-5% v/v solution and dose like melafix (5ml:40l). How many people have success with this DIY formula?

cheers

<br>

cheers

<br>

blake

</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: nels87</STRONG><BR><BR>Sup Blake!

<br>

<br>

Check this out -

www.notcatfish.com/health...w_grub.htm

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: lilhungsta</STRONG><BR><BR>i had that problem before too with my eureka reds and e.blue also my saulosi. I think its the water, after i do a water change the fish went better, but the saulosi stayed the same!!!

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BlakeyBoyR</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks guys but that still doesnt tell me how I am supposed to treat this thing

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BlakeyBoyR</STRONG><BR><BR>Awww help me someone

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Link 2 Hell</STRONG><BR><BR>Black spot is usually only in wild caught fish but I suppose the infection could have been brought in if you have introduced snails from a pond that were part of the cycle

<br>

The treatment is to leave them alone as they don't do the fish any harm since they require being injested for the next stage in the nematodes development

<br>

Maybe its viral or nutrition related ?

<br>

L2H

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: gianniz</STRONG><BR><BR>get a twizer and take it off

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: SouthCoastGold</STRONG><BR><BR>I don't think that would be recommended and also a little tedious don't you think.

<br>

I think I had the same thing once on one of my fish (I can't remeber which type) and I culled it, whatever it was I didn't want any of my other fish getting it and since then I have never seen it in any of my fish.

<br>

Josh

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Link 2 Hell</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Guys as Josh said it is not recommended to try removing these due to the stress placed on the fish for no reason other than cosmetics

<br>

I suppose it would be like being waxed or worse like having your nails pulled off ....... hmmmmm spots are nice

<br>

<br>

L2H

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BlakeyBoyR</STRONG><BR><BR>I worked out, I had used my net in my pond and then used it in my tank, whilst I was reasonably sure I had washed the net out, Im thinking maybe something hitchhiked its way in ? I DID find a tiny snail in my tank the other day which is odd because I have no snails ! I will leave it and hope that everything works out

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: chromis</STRONG><BR><BR>my venustus has had them before,i wouldnt worry to much about it,from what i have read sometimes keeping them in hard alkaline water which they love will cause it to develop....it is not a disease so apart from making the fish look a bit crappy it doesnt harm them

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Pommie Dave</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Blake

<br>

I've experienced the same thing once before and I'm also having the problem at the present moment, both times with my female saulosi's. They're looking quite off colour in general as well as having the blotches, have you noticed that yourself? Their vibrant yellow has dulled to a dirty colour so I'm under the impression that they're definitely sick. It's funny I've never seen it on the males or any other fish.

<br>

The first time I noticed was aftre I returned home from a 3 week holiday and consequently the fish had to forfeit their weekly water changes. A couple of them had these ugly blotches on them but it disappeared after a few weeks of regular water changes and normal feeding. But now they're reappeared as I've been really busy lately and haven't changed the water in a few weeks.

<br>

So I'd put it down to the quality of the water dropping dramatically..... but that's just my stab in the dark.

<br>

There's other things that make me suspicious but I'm no expert so I don't want to make a dumb call.

<br>

please let me know if you suss out the problem.

<br>

Cheers

<br>

Pommie

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: cichomaniac</STRONG><BR><BR>I have also got the same problem with my moliros , here is a couple of pics

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: mtchye</STRONG><BR><BR>those look like melanophores rather than black spot parasitic type disease.. I hear its due to damage being done to the epidermis in some way.. maybe due to water conditions or bullying?

<br>

Hopefully someone can be of more help

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BengaBoy</STRONG><BR><BR>freckles?

<br>

I have them on some Ilangi off and on - they seem to grow out of it. I dont think it is a disease or anything. I asked Wayne who bred these particular Ilangi and he was of the same opinion.

<br>

Steve

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: cichomaniac</STRONG><BR><BR>I hope you are right Steve , it does'nt seem to affect them in any way and only some of them have the markings.

<br>

Luke

<br>

Ps Maybe that poor little guy with all the freckles has spent too much time out in the sun

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BlakeyBoyR</STRONG><BR><BR>For some reason the spots seem to be mainly under their bottom jaw. They are REALLY concentrated under their body and around the mouth

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BengaBoy</STRONG><BR><BR>is this issue related to the problem Electric Yellows get with black markings?

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BlakeyBoyR</STRONG><BR><BR>I doubt it as its not just on my yellow, its on most of my fish.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: ellem3</STRONG><BR><BR>I think I have had something similar affect my cobalt zebras and exasperatus.

<br>

The black spot almost looks like mould and is only affecting them around the mouth and the top of the head and slightly into the top fin.

<br>

My fish shop said it was a type of fungi and to treat the water with a general fungas medication. I am using Wardleys Fungas-ade and so far the exasperatus are clear and the cobalts are almost there. I have been treating now for almost 3 weeks.

<br>

Hope this helps, let me know.

<br>

Jodie

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: tropheusboy</STRONG><BR><BR>sorry to say, if its not the actual color spots of the fish going funny... you have black spot.

<br>

as a couple of others have said there has to of been something come in from "the wild" - pond or live fish for this problem to appear.bad news=it cant be, or is extremely hard to cure...

<br>

this disease most often occurs in newly imported fish and in pond fish. the parasites mature in the intestines of fish-eating birds or mammals. here,they produce eggs which, on entry into water, usually infect aquatic snails. fish most often become infected by tiny invasive larvae leaving the snail and penetrating a suitable host.

<br>

<br>

in most pond and aquarium situations, it will be impossible for such a complex life cycle to be completed. therefore, these parasites rarely build up and cause a problem to fish hobbiests.although the larvae are long lived, they will eventaually die...

<br>

TREATMENT AND CONTROL...

<br>

treatment is rarely needed and is, in any case difficult if not impossible. avoid buying fish with obvious heavy infestations of these parasites and discourage fish-eating birds from visiting garden ponds to prevent the life cycle from being completed"

<br>

from: The manual of FISH HEALTH

<br>

pg's 178-181

<br>

dr chris andrews, adrian exell and

<br>

dr neville carrington

<br>

<br>

tetra press

<br>

<br>

i hope this helps a bit

<br></P>

<br>

one of my recent purchases (none of your progeny Arj) has developed cloudy eye, how do I go about treating this?

<br>

<br>

Thanks

<br>

<br>

Mick

</DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: adnansiv</STRONG><BR><BR>I always use a product called myxazin. the company that makes it is called waterlife.you can by it from your

<br>

LFS.In about 4 days it should clear up if it is only mild or 1 week if it is bad.also if it is really bad it could lose it's eye sight.cheeck the water conditions first.

<br>

<br>

adnan

<br>

<br>

good luck

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Anita ozfish</STRONG><BR><BR>I know I must sound like a broken record sometimes

but melafix and rock salt work really well for me - both natural products too

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: ducksta</STRONG><BR><BR>I agree wholeheartedly with Anita also. Best combination for general illness going aroun

<br>

<br>

I think I might mix melafix and salt in a bottle and market it under a snazzy name, like MultEE-Cure or something...

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: ducksta</STRONG><BR><BR>

quote: how do you know what's in melafix<BR><BR>

<br>

<br>

How? Its written on the bottle

It is tee tree oil extract I believe; or an extract from a close relative of a tea tree? (Dont have a bottle on my computer desk at present)

<br>

<br>

As for cancer - were talking about cloudy eye here, which is usually caused by a scratch on the eye cover of a fish as far as I'm aware. NOT something as serious as cancer.

<br>

<br>

As for adding medications to my tank, I add about as much as I am prepared to take myself, bare minimum.

<br>

<br>

Do you know why there are so many new and deadly strains of flu and other bacteria circulating? Overuse of anti-biotics and medicines in people, making the illness deadlier, by default of being less treatable... Same as penecillian is no longer considered a valid treatment for infection because the infections immune systems are developing. I would go into more detail but Im going fishing.

<br>

<br>

Bye bye for now.

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: mtchye</STRONG><BR><BR>Hmm gee guys the intent is in the right place RE overuse of medications, but in actuality tea tree oil, though you may consider it 'natural' (whats our definition of that?

) is just as much a chemical as anything else.

<br>

<br>

How do you know your use of Melafix (which claims to have antibacterial properties) is not contributing to bacterial resistance? If you really wanted to be all natural you would provide only the best water conditions and comforts for your fish if they became sick. Thats what they would get in the wild, unless they lived next to a fallen tea tree or something..

<br>

<br>

I really have an issue with this 'natural' or 'alternative' therapy stuff as compared to something scientifically proven to work. Many of these mainstream medications (interesting how we tend to call these 'drugs' or 'chemicals') originated from a natural source. Just because it has had tests to prove its efficacy does not make it any more or less good or natural.

<br>

<br>

Just as well the TGA is considering changes to the law which at the moment does not require compulsory submission of evidence that alternative therapies actually do what they claim.

<br>

<br>

I am not badmouthing melafix, just want you guys to consider that it is just as much a chemical as anything else and that you shouldnt look down on others just because you are using a so called 'natural' therapy.

<br>

<br>

The broad spectrum of activity claimed by melafix may in fact have a chance at leading to bacterial resistance, just as much as using a mainstream drug. And how do you know what the company has done to the product between extracting it from the tree and bottling it?? What has it treated it with?

<br>

<br>

Anyway off the soapbox, and yes melafix seems to work for many diseases. It would be a good start. I don't have much experience with cloudy eye so I'll leave it at that. I believe potassium permanganate at 2-6 ppm is also claimed to be effective against many external infections due to its oxidative properties, however it needs to be dosed in the right way.

<br>

<br>

Hope you help save your fish. Often if the fish sustained the infection secondary to a physical injury, its immune system will kick in given that you remove causes of stress and provide good water conditions. If it is eating and moving around healthily you may not need to treat at all.

<br>

<br>

HTH

<br>

<br>

Sorry for the long post

</DIV>

<br>

Should I try to tuck it back in? ( its hanging out on one side) or would this risk making the problem worse?

<br>

If so how would I handle the fish, its about 10cm.

<br>

Thanks

<br>

Ed.

<br>

</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: lungy01</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi there dude , Unless you are absolutely sure you know the

<br>

mechanical geometrics of the jaw structure, leave it

^l.

<br>

And wait for nature to take its coarse, Unless it does'nt take

<br>

food for a long period then some intervention may be required .....

hno....Good luck....

<br>

Andy...

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: meesterclarence</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi. Definitely leave it alone. It will have to fix itself. Hopefully it will. Good luck.

<br>

<br>

Paul.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Gcichlid</STRONG><BR><BR>Very common syndrome with oscars. Sometimes it corrects itself - sometimes it doesnt. I've raised heaps of oscars with dislocated jaws and providing they can still consume food it detracts from their appearance but is not life threatening.

<br>

Many times it corrects itself at least partially.

<br>

I had one Tiger Oscar with a dislocated jaw that never corrected, an ugly bugger but a great pet, who survived for over 10 years before finally dying of old age.

<br>

Nick

<br>

To follow this up i'd like to inform everyone that I have been using it with good results. I used 1ml to 120ml of water, of this I used 5ml/40L daily (half Melafix's dose just to be safe) on a beaten up female Auratus. In a week an open wound has healed and her caudal fin is regenerating. I hope this helps anyone, it is heaps cheaper.

<br>

<br>

Lloyd

</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: YeW2001</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Lloyd,

<br>

<br>

Thanks for that - this will definately go into the Archives/Forum FAQ

. I have always thought it was odd that tea tree oil comes from a Melaleuca, a genus in which most member species are commonly known as paper barks and not tea trees - while oil from tea tress (genus: Leptospermum) never gets a look in

.

<br>

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hungsta</STRONG><BR><BR>what does melafix usually treat?

<br>

<br>

Thanx

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Arj</STRONG><BR><BR>Lloyd,

<br>

i'm bloody confused!

i thought melafix had tea tree exract! so then which stuff did you get and for how much? if i go to like a health food shop what do i ask for?

<br>

<br>

thanks

<br>

<br>

Arj.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: slotha</STRONG><BR><BR>No please! Stop with those plant names. Its bringing back bad memories of Tafe!

<br>

Tim

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: iamguiness</STRONG><BR><BR>OK, all apologies, I got ahead of my horticulturist self. I will explain as best I can.

<br>

<br>

Melafix, which is used as an antibacterial agent for aquarium usage, contains the oil of the Catjeput tree as its main constituent. The Catjeput or five veined paperbark (Melaleuca quinquenervia) is an Australian native that has established itself in the Florida swamps to disastrous consequences. I would guess that Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, whom make Melafix, have made an economically viable way to get rid of this weed. The Catjeput tree is very closely related to the tea tree (M. alternifolia) which is used in the manufacture of common household aussie Tea Tree Oil.

<br>

<br>

Melafix comes in 1% and 5% solutions, copying the former I made my own 1% solution of treatment by adding 1ml of Tea Tree Oil to 120ml of water, taking into account the oil is denser than water. The commercial preparation of Melafix woul contain some sort of emulsifier to prevent the oil and the water from seperating, I overcame this by shaking buggery out of the bottle before using. To simulate the real McCoy as a wound treatment, this stock solution can then be added to the aquarium at a rate of 5ml to 40L daily for 7 days followed by a 25% water change. Treatment can be repeated if neccesary.

<br>

For new additions and after handling fish 5ml to 40L daily for 4 days.

<br>

<br>

***I will add that I have only tried this at half strength, i.e. 5ml to 80L. Although I can't imagine it being detrimental, take it easy***

<br>

<br>

Lloyd

<br>

<br>

PS For anyone who cares the Americans got it wrong anyway, M. quinquenervia isn't actually Catjeput. Catjeput (M.catjuputi) is a closely related ally of 5 veined paperbark (M. quinquenervia). I suppose Catjeput had a more exotic ring to it

<br>

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Arj</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks Lloyd. i'll go get some tea tree oil and see how it mixes in the water.

<br>

<br>

Thanks again

<br>

<br>

Arj.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: YeW2001</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Guys -

<br>

<br>

It is a trifle tragic that Australian plants need to become weeds overseas before they get any commercial interest.

<br>

<br>

... Maybe someone should get into Austmelafix

<br>

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: fiShyGuy</STRONG><BR><BR>

<br>

<br>

May i ask where to buy Tea Tree Oil (Melaleuca alternifolia)?

<br>

<br>

as the idea of it is wonderful

i want to give a try

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: iamguiness</STRONG><BR><BR>fishyguy

<br>

Tea Tree Oil is available at chemists, health food stores and supermarkets

<br>

<br>

yew

So after i read peoples opinions on this forum & plenty of others & getting confusing results i contacted the RSPCA.

After conversing with a very helpfull rspca Vet & getting their veiws on the subject,they have decided to put an article on their website.

Here is the link http://www.petalia.com.au/Templates/StoryT...h&story_no=1885

Cheers

<br>

<br>

It appeared to be getting better, BUT....

<br>

<br>

When I turned his lights on this morning its like his whole head has exploded, there is a whole about the size of a 10 cent piece in his head and white stringy stuff is rapidly coming out.

<br>

<br>

I dont know what to do with him, but I can't bare to see him like this.

<br>

<br>

Can anyone tell me what is wrong and whether his number is up????

</DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>he's getting bad, no suggestions from anyone???

<br>

<br>

I can't bear to watch him like this, but he's a decent sized fish I don't know what to do with him???

<br>

<br>

Please?

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: colfish</STRONG><BR><BR>you do really know what needs to be done

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>yeh pretty much, i've never had to do anything to any of my fish before, I can't just whack him on the head!!!

<br>

<br>

A friend suggested freezing him, but that sounds a bit cruel

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: akaomar</STRONG><BR><BR>keep on treating him he should get better my cuzns jack dempsey had a big cut and you could see the bone and it got better like nathing happand

<br>

and he had a hole in the head in his green severum it got fixed after a while,, what tank i she in and how big is he

<br>

<br>

hope he gets better

<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

cya

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>thanks!!! I will hope for the best, she's in a 3 ft tank with a festivum, firemouth and common plecco. She's about 20 cms.

<br>

<br>

I can isolate her in a smaller tank if necessary???

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: akaomar</STRONG><BR><BR>you should do it asap so the other fish don't catch any bad diseases

<br>

<br>

<br>

cya

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>She's all moved, and well dosed up on medication!!!

<br>

<br>

Hope for the best!!!

<br>

<br>

Thanks

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Beagly</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day

<br>

<br>

If you need to kill her what I would do is put her into a plastic bag, then into another.

<br>

<br>

Then I drop a brick onto the fishes head.

<br>

<br>

At least this way it is a quick for the fish as opposed to dying of suffocation in the cold of a freezer.

<br>

<br>

PS. I agree with trying to save her, especially since you were able to seperate her.

<br>

<br>

Goodluck

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>What was/is in the tank with her ? What filter, carbon etc are you using ?

<br>

<br>

I'm no expert or anything but i believe hole in the head disease can be brought on by stress/bad water conditions/over crowding, i would think a 20cm fish in a 3ft tank could be stressful on the fish. And now you've moved it to a smaller tank ?!

<br>

<br>

Just a thought.............well a guess really

<br>

<br>

Maybe do a google search for "hole in the head disease"..........lots of info out there.

<br>

<br>

Lata

<br>

Matt

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Gcichlid</STRONG><BR><BR>Sounds like your GT has hole in the head rather than pop eye.Hole in the Head is not necessarily fatal although the scars never go away but your fish sounds pretty advanced.

<br>

If youre a real 'softie' (like me) and hate euthanising fish the more direct way - put it into a shallow container,(Ice cream container etc), drop about 4-5 panadiene into the water and put the container into the freezer for an hour or so. The fish will absorb the pain killer thru its gills and go into a 'coma' then die without any pain or stress. White alcohol ( vodka, white rum etc) in the water works even quicker but is obviously more expensive.

<br>

Nick

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: phatoscarlover</STRONG><BR><BR>Beagly thats the most unhumane thing ive heard in a long time! dropping a brick on the fish? Just freeze it in a freezer with water plain and simple.....The temp reduces the fish`s capacity to carry oxygen in the blood to the brain and as such cause the fish to go into a "coma" so they cant feel anything within a few mins of being in the freezer there dead. May not be as qucik as choopin its head off or whateva but is alot more humane in my opinion. Never heard the panadine thing but when you can use only water why bother. HTH Cheers andy

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: GoFast01</STRONG><BR><BR>I put fish in icy water with ice cubes floating around.... they die in about 5 seconds...... i don't know about 1 hour in the freezer.....

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>Well fortunately she's still swimming around, a friend who has an empty 3 ft tank has taken her and she's living there temporarily!!!

<br>

<br>

Hopefully she will be back home soon.

<br>

<br>

Thanx for all the help!!! I could never bring myself to drop a head on any of my fish

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>HITHD has been linked to prolonged exposure to hard water as well as water quality, you may wish to address these before returning the fish to the tank.

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Gcichlid</STRONG><BR><BR>GoFast01

<br>

I guess I'm talking about big fish. I've had to euthanise a few big oscars,severums etc over the years and trust me, 5 minutes in a freezer doesnt cut it with a 30cm fish unless theyre real weak to start with !

<br>

Whatever - plain water,putting painkillers in the water etc, putting in the freezer for 5 minutes or an hour - got to be a lot better than dropping a brick on it!

<br>

Nick

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: akaomar</STRONG><BR><BR>like i said put it in a tank by it self and see how you go and keep us informed about its health

<br>

the HIH disease will get better if you treat it properly

<br>

<br>

don't freez it or drop a brick on its head

<br>

<br>

test your water for (PH amonia and nitrate)

<br>

<br>

do you do regular water change and what do you feed it

<br>

<br>

HTH

<br>

<br>

<br>

omar

<br>

<br>

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>I do weekly 1/6 water changes (approx)

<br>

<br>

I feed mainly on cichlid pellets, but i do try to give a few meals of frozen cichlid dinner per week.

<br>

<br>

I took a sample of my water down to hi tek aquariums soon after I removed the fish and they tested it and the results came back all with in the normal range except for Ph it was slightly low.

<br>

<br>

She is still alive and kicking (well sort of), tho not eating at all. She sits close to the bottom of the tank all day, for once she is not ripping all the greenery out (she must be ill).

<br>

<br>

I've been doing daily water changes now (on the advice of lfs) and redoing her medication daily.

<br>

<br>

She looks better today than she did before so I'm hoping that she will recover.

<br>

<br>

Thanks for all your help, hopefully i wont be needing brick, freezers or pandedine.

<br>

<br>

Cheers

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Chipimbi</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day all,

<br>

<br>

Totally amazed at the definition of 'humane' posted by a number of members in this post.

<br>

<br>

A large part of keeping livestock is being accountable for their well being and also a responsibility to end their suffering if needed.

<br>

<br>

Any hit to the head, whether by a brick or other object, is DEFINITELY more humane - where death occurs instantly- than 5 seconds to over an hour in cold conditions whether drugged to the gills on codeine or not. Individuals are trying to rationalise euthanasia to make it more palatable to their senses and are thinking of themselves as opposed to the recipient of their act.

<br>

<br>

I do agree on the reasons posted for HITH - keeping rivulatus in hard water for prolonged periods - water quality itself etc. This is an internal gut parasite that causes the disease and needs to be treated with appropriate prescription medication. Believe me I know what you are experiencing having put down a beautiful 30cm rivulatus male who finally succumbed to HITH.

<br>

<br>

While you may save the fish, the scarring will not heal completely, if at all, and if the hole is as severe as you mention it may be a better option to bite the bullet and destroy the fish.

<br>

<br>

Cheers

<br>

Aline

<br>

Katoomba, NSW

<br>

<br>

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hoges</STRONG><BR><BR>That's not really something I wanted to hear, she was a beautiful species and I was hoping to find a mate for her in the near future.

<br>

<br>

Although the water quality was almost perfect at the time of testing she had spent some time in a mates tank seeing if she would pair with his male, I'm wondering if this impacted on her health

<br>

<br>

This morning I went to visit and she is still not eating, she still has stuff coming out of the hole and she;s still just sitting on the bottom looking sad.

<br>

<br>

I dont think i could ever whack her over the head, but I'll get a good friend of mine whos knowledge of fish is amazing to come and take a peek and see what he has to say on the matter.

<br>

<br>

He has euthanased many fish in his time (he's a trained vet) and has the equipment to neither freeze or bash them, he just puts them to sleep.

<br>

<br>

Anyways I'll let you all know what happens later on today

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Chipimbi</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day Hoges,

<br>

<br>

If worst comes to worst I think you have a very peaceful solution for your rivulatus - you never know, your vet friend may come up with something yet

<br>

<br>

If things don't go as planned persevere - both gold saum and white saum rivulatus make wonderful display fish, breeders and pets. Like the majority of American cichlids they are full of personality.

<br>

<br>

Good luck.

<br>

Aline

<br>

Katoomba, NSW

<br>

</DIV>

<DIV id=Qtextbox><P><STRONG>Author: 23Skidoo</STRONG><BR><BR>My condolences hoges, hopefully she'll be alright.

<br>

<br>

The rest of you i'm really disappointed in, a big bunch of tree huggers, too wrapped up in being nice to just kill a fish. C'mon people! If it's sick there is no horror in killing a fish.

<br>

I think the brick method is definately the most humane talked about. It's quick and brutally effective. If you shed a tear at the loss of a fish, fine. But it's your fish, your responsibility.

<br>

Personally i use my fishing knife, behind the head first or second vertebra, no wuckers!

<br>

<br>

Sorry for ranting again, but i think we are all getting a bit soft these days

<br>

<br>

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: phatoscarlover</STRONG><BR><BR>i Hope the fish recovers to full health. If you guys think its humane to drug your fish or hit it on the head then go for it but personally id rather the freezer.

BTW if it does come good and you want to bread it, the scars and the disease are not genetical so there will be no ill health from it for there offspiring. HTH Cheers andy

</DIV>

Is there any treatments people can suggest. I looked in the FAQ section but couldn't find anything relevant.

I am thinking if there is nothing effective I would prefer to euthanase her as she is having such a hard time.

Cheers

Foai

<br>

<br>

Has anyone experience this??? whats the survival rates?

<br>

<br>

My first batch, I only had 2 left from 30.

<br>

<br>

Now this is my second batch... I have about 40 frys... wanna keep them all alive.

</DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>Water quality would be my first guess Tony, get some readings and see if the nitrates are getting high, Tangs dont like high nitrates. Maybe the plenum discussed at the meeting a few months ago would be worth a try.</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: burundi 6 bar</STRONG><BR><BR>10 % a week is far from enough id say,id be doing that on a daily bases till the problem is cured.

<br>

How is tank set up ,whats ya feeding routineand what kind of filtration ru using.

<br>

How long has it been set up do u age your water,the list goes on and on.

<br>

Cheers

<br>

Darryl

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>Tony I had this occurring in my fry growout tanks with sponges filters and had (wife had to) to change 10% every second day and rinse the filters alternatively weekly to stop the fry from dying (one a day every day) I reckon that the nitrates were building up quickly due to overfiltration and generous feeding and the weaker fish that were more sensitive to change karked it first. On a positive side the survivors are very hardy

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Anita ozfish</STRONG><BR><BR>I'd also be looking at what sort of water you are putting into the tank for the water changes. Doing more changes is all well and good as long as it isn't straight from the tap - then you will only make the problem worse

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: DFishkeeper</STRONG><BR><BR>I have found that at about 2-3 mths of age 6 bar Frontosa fry can start getting quite territorial and aggressive towards each other. This can result in the type of losses you are talking about, especially as you say you have them in a 2 ft tank. I counter this problem by moving the fry to a larger tank after 2 mths or so and mixing them with other fry around the same size (eg blue dolphins, taiwan reef) to distract them. This seems to work for me and my losses are now very low.

<br>

<br>

Cheers, Doug

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: XterC</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks for the info and tip guys... will try and do regular water change and clean out my filter.... might also move them to bigger tank as well.

<br>

<br>

1 more died last night

<br>

<br>

Anyone know whats wrong? She does seem to have a fat tummy which I think is eggs, it has been 2 or so months since she held last.

Cheers

<br>

<br>

I've just setup my first tang tank and this is what I've done:

<br>

<br>

it's a 2x2x14 tank so thats about 110 liters when full

<br>

<br>

1. cleaned the tank, put the sand (rinsed lots of times) added water from my standard tropical tank to about 60%. I then add the remainder as fresh tap water then added the salts as discribed on the Sydney Cichlid Forum.

<br>

<br>

2. I cleaned (scrubed and soaked) some nice limestone rocks and put them in the tank. Some of these from my parents place, some from outside my house.

<br>

<br>

3. I ran the tank like that for about 1 week, with a sponge filter in it.

<br>

<br>

4. Before I went to get the fish, I put a sponge filter I've been running in another tank (for about 4 weeks) in the tank. I then went and got 6 Leleupi's and 3 multis and let them float in the tank, and adjust properly. (the multi's will go in another tank once thats setup)

<br>

<br>

A day later the fish are all very lathargic and not eating much. I did a 25% water cahnge (sucked up some of the food that wasn't eaten)

<br>

<br>

The next day (this morning) two of the leleupi's started to gulp quickly, the rest seem to be be breathing very quickly but not as bad as the other two. I was a bit concerned so I put another airstone in the tank. There is heaps of air in there now so it shouldn't be a problem. The temp of the tank was 27deg.

<br>

<br>

I checked them at lunch and now all are gulping pretty badly... the multi's seam to be unaffected. I took some water to my lfs, and everything checked out fine (pH at 7.8, nitrates/nitrites none, amonia - a little, hardness fine). the amonia in the water is probably due to the food that wasn't eaten yesterday.

<br>

<br>

So I went back home, took out the rocks (maybe some toxins on them?), added a bigger airstone (heaps of air now), and changed some more water about 40%. They were still gulping after 20mins of watching them.

<br>

<br>

Does anyone have any ideas, I'm getting desperate!!! They aren't looking very happy.

<br>

<br>

thanks

<br>

Rick

<br>

</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>Two things perhaps, the first is temperature and surface agitiation, you mention air stones, this is good providing it is disturbing the majority of the water surface vigorously as warmer temps can deplete the dissolved oxygen in water and agitation allows for a gas exchange at the surface. Check the temp (26-27 degrees) and the amount of surface agitation ( Sometimes the airstone can be too fine and not really stir up the surface)

<br>

Secondly you mention Ammonia, even small readable amounts can affect fish particularly tangs, I doubt your food would have had time to break down into ammonia, if it has you are leaving it there too long, syphon the excess out daily.....I hope this helps

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Madjak</STRONG><BR><BR>I also removed the covers of the tank this afternoon hoping to alow more air movement across the water surface and to cool the tank a bit... The airstone is really moving the surface well as I have the filter pushing it in one direction and the airstone on the other side of the tank moving it back.

<br>

<br>

I really don't think it's lack of oxygen. Is there anything else that can make the fish really gulp?

<br>

<br>

And the amonia may have come from the water in my other tank? The guy at the lfs said there was only a small amount in there. I have been doing water changes and I've been planning to do them every few days until the tank stabalized.

<br>

<br>

Thanks for your help,

<br>

Rick

<br>

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>"Guy at lfs" should have known that tangs tolerate NO AMMONIA, try some zeolite or similar ammonia removers in your filter, mind you have you cycled the tank? Are you aging the tap water, oooh so many questions

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Madjak</STRONG><BR><BR>ok he suggested I might try some ammonirite or something (con't remember the name) that removes ammonia and nitrates. I really hate using that sort of stuff, so I put 3/4 of the dose in just before I did that larger water change at lunchtime.

<br>

<br>

I'm aging all the tap water I put in. I add the dechlorinater/ager in the bucket, fill it up, add the required amounts of tang salts/buffer and let it sit for 5 mins. Then pour it in.

<br>

<br>

I'm relatively new to all this so I'm hope I'm doing it all right. Shout it if I'm not cause I'd really appreciate knowing.

<br>

<br>

Thanks for you help

<br>

Rick

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>Large water changes can sometimes be detrimental especially in newly cycled tanks, however you should have exported the ammonia, unless there is still something in your tank creating it (like a dead fish) without actually seeing your tank/setup it can be difficult to advise, it sounds like your are preparing your water correctly, what ph is your tapwater?

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Madjak</STRONG><BR><BR>There are no dead fish in there... The tank is basically bare except for the filter, heater, sand and fish

<br>

<br>

The pH from the tap here is 7.2 though I'm not sure what the hardness is (I think it's quite soft)

<br>

<br>

I have no idea what could be causeing the problem... I spose I just need to wait now and see if what I've done is enough.

<br>

<br>

I'm suspecting some sort of contaiminate in the rocks I put in there.

<br>

<br>

Thanks for your help

<br>

Rick

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BengaBoy</STRONG><BR><BR>hi Rick

<br>

1. i dont think your tank was cycled. There was nothing to feed the bacteria for the week the water was in there. and depending on the other tank the four week sponge might not have had enough good bacteria. I say this because you should have zero ammonia. and imho zero nitrate indicates an uncycled tank.

<br>

2. Perth limestone from ?? Beware limestone used in walls, houses etc around Perth may well be reconstituted limestone, not natural limestone IE it may be limestone dust reconstituted and bonded with concrete - so you did well to get the rocks out.

<br>

<br>

1. try some Sera Nitrevec to get the good bacteria going.

<br>

2. try some Geo Liquid to help get a healthy tank.

<br>

3.which lfs is advising you? email me if you want to discuss Perth lfs's

<br>

4. how big are the fish?

<br>

5. is your thermometer correct? (They aren't always u know) It has been sticking hot today in Perth. Get in the habit of touching your tank with your hand - you will know straight away if it is abnormal.

Recently my tropheus tank has started the breeding thing, There are 22 dubosi, and was 12 Kiriza in the tank, All has been fine for ages ~6 months. heaps of hiding rocks 6x18x18, the duboisi and Kiriza completely ignore each other.

With the onset of breeding first in th eKiriza and now in the dubosi, I have a few unhappy fish,, listless , stringy poo, spitting, so they have bloat......:

THEy are being treated with metronidozol, both in the water and I soak the flake in it. one was dead when i got back from 4 days in Brissy(tuesday), another died a day later.

The fish are breeding, although they are still too small in my opinion~4-5cm, after the femles have breed their little vents look torn, and are protruding for a few days after, 3 female Kiriza so far have done this. the dominant male is all of 4cm!!

They hold for anywere from 2 hours to 2 days, then spit/chew/swallow the eggs.

yesterday i saw a bigger female that was holding spit a heap of mushed egg? from her mouth, the other fish all rushed in and had a feed.... Today I saw a dubosi do the same thing although she didnt even look to be holding., and it was about 2 hours after feeding them, so rulled out food..

Now I am wondering if it is the stress of the females passing bowling balls that is messing them up, and resulting in some kind of infection?

Or I thought of this today, is the bloat due to the fish eating very high protein,low fibre fish eggs?

Any suggestions?

also, i have recently changed the water chemistry by adding marble chips and i removed 2 larger ones about a week ago. they seemed to be thin as well. also, i was very busy and didnt two water changes for a little while so my nitrates were pretty high.

i am feeding them flake and bloodworm and have previously had no troubles with these foods.

can someone please suggest a remedy for my frontosas as i have a feeling things will only get worse from here if i dont do anything soon.

thank you!

<br>

<br>

I thought I would share my experience recently in dealing with a strain of costia. Some of you may remember a problem I had with my fuelleborni recently which invlolved this disease and was treated successfully with a course of protozin. This time around the victims were 10 small Labeotropheus trewavasae juveniles, that had never come into conatct with water from the fuelleborni tank.

<br>

<br>

The disease had arisen when the fish were moved from their 3*18*18 holding tank in the garage to the display tank in my bedroom, a 4*18*20. I suggest that they were carrying the disease and the stress of the move compromised their immune systems enough to let it take over. It is interesting to note that just like in the fuelleborni's case, it was only the trewavase that got this disease, maybe just a coincidence, but these are both from the Labeotropheus genus.

<br>

<br>

The symptoms for costia are fairly obvious. The slimecoat will start turning white and get a little lumpy. Small flakes that look like skin will start peeling off, giving the appearence that the fish is covered in small soap flakes, these will appear on the fins and eyes as well as the body. From beneath these flakes, blood will start to appear, as well as from beneath each scale and at the base of each spine on the fins. In severe cases the skin will blister and these blisters will pool small amounts of blood in them. The fish will have all fins clamped and will be looking very irritaed, attempting to scratch themselves on objects and on other fish. They will breath heavily. From the first sign of symptoms it can be lethal in as little as two days, but can hold out for a week before death. Unless treated, it seems to always be lethal, I add this because I have the odd ich case that I just let be and it clears itself up without fatality.

<br>

<br>

The initial treatment for the fuelleborni was a standard dose of salt and some malachite green, I wasn't sure what the disease was, and this didn't seem to work. A full course of protozin cured the problem but I did sustain losses. This outbreak came about due to a very hot series of days.

<br>

<br>

This time around I thought the disease was simply some damage on some of the trewavasae. I treated with salt and melafix and let them be. Soon it was obvious that I had costia again and so I dosed them with a course of protozin. This time around there was no sign of improvement and the other trewavase started catching it. I dosed with malachite thinking that maybe this is what did it last time, but to no avail. I started sustaining losses at this point.

<br>

<br>

I had a chat with Anita and Kevin, whom confirmed it was costia. After hearing my plight, and the fact that none of the standard treatments were working (including an extreme raise in temperature which is supposed to kill the paraiste outright, but only served to stress out my taiwans). They then suggested to just hit it with all Ive got, which was logical enough for me, seeing that nothing was working. Anita suggested octozin, which I don't have, but I do have 200mg Metranidazol tablets. I dosed them that night with 1000mg of metranidazol pre crushed in a mortar and pessel (however you spell it), as I find they don't like to dissolve well in my tanks. Let me say at this point things were looking very serious, 100% of the trewavase had caught a serious case of the parasite and I was down to 6 fish out of 10. I went to bed that night with fingers crosssed and all my hope on the Mz tabs.

<br>

<br>

In the morning I awoke and immediately turned the light on for the tank. To my suprise ALL trace of the disease had disappeared, no flakes no blood, the only sign that was left was the eaten away skin on the individuals that had it the worst. I had lost one to the disease that night though, leaving me with 5 out of10. I treated with melafix and the fish are looking feisty as can be. In fact that morning they immediately started fighting amongst themselved and eating enthusiastically.

<br>

<br>

I started with 6males and 4 females, and now have 3 males 2 females, so at least it was fairly even, as I don't really want to purchase any more fish from this particular supplier (a wholesaler, name withheld) to try to get more girls. If I do they will be under strict quarantine for at least a month before introducing into the main system.

<br>

<br>

I hope this is interesting and perhaps useful.

<br>

<br>

Cheers,

<br>

<br>

Mark

</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Cichlid Boy</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks for the info. Octazin or Metronidazole is the ticket, eh. I'll remember that.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Willy wombat</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks Mark,

<br>

<br>

It is always interesting to hear of other peoples experience with diseases, as it helps all of us to learn by example.

<br>

<br>

For those ofr you who dont know, Costia is a very small flagelated protozoan parasite (10-15 microns) in size. It is external and attaches to outer surfaces of the fish including gill tissue. Viewed under the microscope thyey look like round disks that "jerk" around when they move.

<br>

<br>

From the treatments you described mark i would have expected salt, mal green and the temp rise to knock them off. I am glad the metronidazole helped you out on the last line of defence. You also could have tried using formalin to treat your tank, as this is usually effective against external protozoan parasites.

<br>

<br>

A big "get well soon" to your guys.

<br>

<br>

WW

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Willy wombat</STRONG><BR><BR>Oh, one more thing, Costia is also known as

Ichthyobodo necatrix

these days. They changed the name of it a few years back. Everyone still calls it Costia though.

As some of you know I have recently had a massive loss in one of my tanks. I reckon by tonight I would have lost the last of my display males

I still have the 5 BN catsfish in there and appear unaffected at this stage.

So now what do I do to ensure that the either the white spot ,or more likely from talking to various people yesterday, a vicious baterial infection. I don't want tosentence any more fish to death.

I have treating the tank with with bactronex and ichonex for the past 9 days and I will put the next dose in tomorrow.

cheers

Rosco

<br>

<br>

BTW nitrates/nitrites ammonia etc = 0

<br>

<br>

Cheers Charlie

</DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: kevkoi</STRONG><BR><BR>praziquantel will not affect your filter bacteria in any way. Great medication for flukes and tapeworm....

<br>

IMO it's better for flukes than trichlorofon.

<br>

<br>

kev

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: hieuc</STRONG><BR><BR>or u could try and set up another spare tank for 2-3 hours, put the same water and then the medication. soak the fish for 2-3hours and take them out. the next day u should see the worm come out of the fish.

<br>

also soak in a concentrated dose. i do it for my discus all the time and it works great.

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Gcichlid</STRONG><BR><BR>Obvious comments that I'm sure you already know. Remove any charcoal from your filters before introducing your worm treatment and give the tank a 20-25% water change abt 48 hours after introducing the medication to the water.

<br>

Otherwise the treatment shouldnt affect your filters, fish or plants.

<br>

Good luck with the de-worming.

<br>

Nick

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: xchimbax</STRONG><BR><BR>Also like to add Paraziquantel will leave a white residue after tablets dissolve.....harmless to fish just vacuum when u do the water change.

<br>

<br>

Jim...

</DIV>

Some of you may recall the following post about my first struggle with bloat after many years of keeping my beloved Tropheus.

http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=18464&hl=

The Nkondes were not able to be saved - my lack of education and the time delay caused all but one (now going in a display tank ) to leave this mortal coil Part of the treatment also meant that any fish displaying signs of bloat were euthanaised to prevent further infectious spread.)

Unfortunately a second tank was infected - I think via the same primary water source as there was no opportunity for cross contamination.

This time around we sacrificed one for all and off to the vet for live cultures and slides etc to be investigated. The bacteria was named (further later) the antibiotic given via injection to the fish - YES I have now also learnt to inject my fish Food was also soaked and fed to those still eating and lo and behold minimal losses with the main colony still intact.

Injecting the fish is the most stressful part, not only on the fish but on me - however the results have been amazing. The process less intimidating than it sounds and the outcome one I can definately cope with in future.

I promised an article and will have one for the next NSWCS mag as well as the forum.

Cheers

Aline

<br>

<br>

i'm not sure if my Synodontis multipunctatus is sick or not.

<br>

but i found him this morning and it looks like his skin has been peeled off. it starts halfway his body close to the top fin and it's just in the middle part of his body.

<br>

it's like pinkish and the rest of the body is white with those spots. there are no spots in the pinkish part.

<br>

it's swimming well and it's eating and actually as active as ever.

<br>

<br>

i've placed all my fish in a plastic tub with box filter powered by airpump since i sold my tank because we're going to move soon and i'm planning on getting a bigger tank once we move to the new place.

<br>

<br>

anyone out there experienced the same thing?

<br>

<br>

thanks

<p>

Loko

<br>

<br>

<br>

Email me:

loko@yada-yada.com

<br>

Bankstown area, Sydney

<br>

<br>

Add me to your list! ICQ 54591217

<br>

<br>

"Look after the water, and the water will look after your fish." <??}}}}><

<br>

<br>

Pix of my fish

<br>

<br>

Cichlid City</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Jay TT</STRONG><BR><BR>Ive had a simiular problem from my male multy harassing my females by chaseing them 24/7, biting them just behind the dorsal fin. Separation from the male is the only cure & a dose of 'Melafix'

<br>

<br>

J.T.

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Boots n all</STRONG><BR><BR>it sounds like its the only Syno you have from the way talk, has the problem only occurred since he went into the plastic tub? it could the tub causing the problem?

<br>

<br>

Hey Jaytt, why dont you post the pic's of your half eaten catch from your fishing trip, and possibly the one that did the biting

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: lokopraning</STRONG><BR><BR>yey finally got a reply!

<br>

<br>

thanks

<br>

<br>

i feel so sorry for my multi. the injury is soooo bad, i can now see the tip of its bones!

<br>

<br>

the flesh is like being eaten away.

<br>

<br>

i went to auburn and they suggested i use myaxin(?? sorry forgot spelling)

<br>

<br>

i've been soaking cotton ear buds on the meds and dubbing it gently as possible to the open wound. i've also put the meds in the tub.

<br>

<br>

i only have two multis infected. the other one is not too bad. the wound is probably less than a cm wide on each side.

<br>

<br>

i've taken photos but i think it's too blurry, i'll try and post it anyway.

<br>

<br>

i've been using the tub for water preparations before.

<br>

there are other fish in the tub and so far, none of them have the same problem.

<br>

<br>

so far, the two sick multis are still swimming, eating and active.

<br>

<br>

<p>

Loko

<br>

<br>

<br>

Email me:

loko@yada-yada.com

<br>

Bankstown area, Sydney

<br>

<br>

Add me to your list! ICQ 54591217

<br>

<br>

"Look after the water, and the water will look after your fish." <??}}}}><

<br>

<br>

Pix of my fish

<br>

<br>

Cichlid City</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: oo Spooky oo</STRONG><BR><BR>Gday Loko,

<br>

it could also be a bacterial problem or even chlorine burn?? ive heard that excessive amounts of chlorine if water isnt aged long enough -water ager that chlorine can burn off fins and do quite some damage...sorry to hear your having probs with yuour multies...

<p>

cheers

<br>

Daniel.....

<br>

<br>

soulfly_maximus@hotmail.com

<br>

coburg Melbourne

<br>

<br>

....I once had a handle on life and then it broke....</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: aymenz</STRONG><BR><BR>hey loko....

<br>

<br>

the same thing happened to my female jack demnpsey. the skin is about a cm peeled off... and you can see the felsh of it and it develops some sourt of fungus material on it .... do you guys think it will get the sacles back and the skin it used to have ?

<br>

<br>

<br>

and if so how????

<br>

what treatment to put ?

<br>

does melafix affect the other fish in the tank if the female is seperately kept, and if there's eggs for other fish ?

<br>

<br>

good luck with your multi loko...... i hope it will get better .....

<br>

<br>

thx in adv.

<br>

c ya

<br>

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: oo Spooky oo</STRONG><BR><BR>i would strongly recomend melafix for any extrenal wound or fungle problem...as for affecting other fish so long as you stick to the dosage rate none of your fish would be harmed

<p>

cheers

<br>

Daniel.....

<br>

<br>

soulfly_maximus@hotmail.com

<br>

coburg Melbourne

<br>

<br>

....I once had a handle on life and then it broke....</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: aymenz</STRONG><BR><BR>thx spooky

<br>

<br>

even if there's fish that spawned ?

<br>

<br>

c ya

<br>

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: oo Spooky oo</STRONG><BR><BR>yep even if the fish has spawned as malafix if anything will assist the eggs in preventing fungus to a certain degree..

<p>

cheers

<br>

Daniel.....

<br>

<br>

soulfly_maximus@hotmail.com

<br>

coburg Melbourne

<br>

<br>

....I once had a handle on life and then it broke....</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: lokopraning</STRONG><BR><BR>thanks daniel

<p>

Loko

<br>

<br>

<br>

Email me:

loko@yada-yada.com

<br>

Bankstown area, Sydney

<br>

<br>

Add me to your list! ICQ 54591217

<br>

<br>

"Look after the water, and the water will look after your fish." <??}}}}><

<br>

<br>

Pix of my fish

<br>

<br>

Cichlid City</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: lokopraning</STRONG><BR><BR>thanks daniel for the reply.

<br>

hmmm.. i'll consider that chlorine burn. but then again, when i put the water in the tub, i waited a couple of days before i added the fish. i put prime and some salt and buffer agents on the water, made sure the temp is the same.

<br>

the only thing i can think of was aggression with other multis.

<br>

the other two multis are fine (i have 4)

<br>

<br>

hey aymenz

<br>

yeah, the wound on 1 multi is less than 1cm in length. the worst one is about 3cm in length and the wound covers the back between the tail and the top fin.

<br>

<br>

good luck with yours too

<p>

Loko

<br>

<br>

<br>

Email me:

loko@yada-yada.com

<br>

Bankstown area, Sydney

<br>

<br>

Add me to your list! ICQ 54591217

<br>

<br>

"Look after the water, and the water will look after your fish." <??}}}}><

<br>

<br>

Pix of my fish

<br>

<br>

Cichlid City</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: oo Spooky oo</STRONG><BR><BR>in that case Noel it sounds like agression like Jaytt said one multi would have been riding the other to much and caused the wound....try and seperate them indervidually so they can recover and that the agression will also cease....and stick with the melafix

<p>

cheers

<br>

Daniel.....

<br>

<br>

soulfly_maximus@hotmail.com

<br>

coburg Melbourne

<br>

<br>

....I once had a handle on life and then it broke....</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: aymenz</STRONG><BR><BR>thx loko and spooky for the info......

<br>

<br>

and loko good luck with yours too

<br>

<br>

make sure you seperate before the treatments like spooky said

<br>

<br>

c ya

<br>

<p></P></DIV>

Please share with us your tropheus bloat experience. What alerted to u to the fact that your trophs had bloat? What actions did u take to keep the disease from spreading? How exactly did u treat them - include drug, dose, dosing frequency and duration of treatment?

I use to remove the affected fish and isolate in a smaller volume hospital tank and treat aggressively until eating again.

I also treat the entire tank (which can be costly if u got a 6 footer!!!!).

I use dimetronidazole (ask Anthony from Auburn Aquarium) at 1g per 50L, sometimes treating twice daily since metro has a short half-life - normally dosed three times a day in humans! I also dissolve 1/4 tsp into a tablespoon of spirulina flakes and feed those that r still eating. I treat until all affected are eating. Remember to do a major water change after 3 days of treatment. I also add some garlic appetite enhancer to the flakes (made by Seachem) to make them want to eat the flakes.

Dave

<br>

<br>

Is anybody else having the wasting disease problem?

<br>

<br>

I had an e yellow recently that completely wasted away, seemed to be eating but not putting on any 'meat'. Finally I put him out of his misery. Now I seem to have other fish with the same afliction.

<br>

<br>

This could be the same problem that Craig T had with his Leptosoma but now seems to manifest in other type of fish fish.

<br>

<br>

Any thoughts or same problem and how you fixed it?

<br>

<br>

Cheers (but not happy)

<br>

<br>

Andreas

</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: BlakeyBoyR</STRONG><BR><BR>Really sorry to hear that man

Maybe some sort of stomach problem ? I wish I could help but alas I dont know anything of the condition, good luck anyway

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: sgrunter</STRONG><BR><BR>Funny you should say that, as a few of my A.chilumba peacocks have just withered to nothing?

<br>

Is it intestinal?

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Dave</STRONG><BR><BR>I thought the wasting thing was TB - wasnt aware of a cure, would get them out before it spread to others - put it in a baggy in the freezer.

<br>

<br>

Open for other opinions.....

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: yevrah</STRONG><BR><BR>Could be worms... Or some intestinal infection..

<br>

<br>

Either way if you loosing fish try diagnosing using some of the available materials:

<br>

<br>

aquaria disease faq:

faqs.org/faqs/aquaria/gen...index.html

<br>

thekrib.com disease section:

www.thekrib.com/Diseases/

<br>

<br>

I'am sure you can find more references.

<br>

<br>

BTW how much does an autopsy cost these days? I've had some fish die recently and water checked out OK..

<br>

<br>

Regards,

<br>

Harvey

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: aurea23</STRONG><BR><BR>If it is TB then kanamyzin may work. Sechem have a product called kanaplex but it is near impossible to get. When it was available a vet prescription was needed. I wanted to get some of it myself but couldnt

<br>

<br>

Mike

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: kevkoi</STRONG><BR><BR>My hunch is on internal flagellates or worms.... Discus often have this problem. Try a dose of Droncit (Praziquantel) soaked in brineshrimp and fed to the fish. If it's tape worm or something like that, it should pass out and that should fix the problem. Aquarium science has a product called "Worm Rid"... active ingredient is praziquantel.

<br>

<br>

If that doesnt work, try a 3day dose of Flagyl (metronidazole). If you can't find Flagyl, Octozin can also be used (esentially the same active ingredient.)

<br>

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Link 2 Hell</STRONG><BR><BR>Other than TB or parasites like worms or flagellates it could also be a vitamin deficiency seems a lack of vitamin C will give similar probs to some fish

<br>

Anita had a similar prob with O.auromarginatus (Margarette) a while back she may be able to advise dosage

<br>

<br>

Last time someone got a necropsy done it was about $45 +

<br>

<br>

L2H

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: dodol</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi all,

<br>

<br>

I had the same problem with one of my discus and I've tried different types of treatment, namely: Praziquantel, Metronidazole, increase temp up to 36'c, even DOGS chewable deworming tabs without any success. The fish still ate well but no matter how much and how often it eats, it didn't put on weight. In the end I had to put to sleep. This is the worst nightmare that I, as a fish keeper, ever encountered.

<br>

<br>

Also, I may add, it's very hard to get some uncommon medications like antibiotics.

<br>

<br>

I'd been thinking to contact Dr. Harry Cooper (Harry's Practice) as it seems he always has a solution for any pet problem.

What do you reckon guys?

<br>

<br>

<br>

DD

<br>

<br>

My Malasa are in one tank of a system of three. In anther tank in this system, I have Cyprichromis leptosoma "Mpimbwe". The adult fish seem to be unaffected, though the young are not immune. I have lost ten or more from a batch of 14 young. All with the above symptoms. One of my four females, has shown the first signs of not eating (spitting out food), but has never continued with the ?disease? process. She has been retarded in her growth, though, and she is the only girl not to have spawned. She showed definite improvement after the system was treated with Furan-2.

<br>

<br>

In the months I have had this problem, I have dosed with the antibiotic, Flagyl. This was mixed in with flake food for three days, and with the water. I have also used Sterizin, Octozin, and lastly another antibiotic called Furan-2. The last one seemed to have some affect, and I had some fish start to eat again, and after two or so weeks they are still eating. A couple of fish were not improved, and I took the step of disposing of the any non-eating fish.

<br>

<br>

I was hoping wondering if somone could inform me of their opinion, if what my fish had was TB (even though they were not showing signs of frayed fins or body ulcers)? Or this Wasting disease I have read about? Not sure if they are one in the same, or two different problems?

<br>

<br>

On the assumption that what ever disease I had is now passed, could these survivors still be infected and act as carriers to any new fish (Malasa) I put into the system?

<br>

<br>

I have a further twenty or so Malasa that I have raised, that are now starting to colour-up. They were stripped from their mother's in this infected system, removed from this system, and have never come into contact with anything from this infected system since. These twenty or so fish are completely healthy with robust appetites.

<br>

<br>

Interestingly, in this same system, I have had three (all female) Neolamprologus brevis die, but with slightly swollen bodies that became several shades lighter in colour than usual. There breathing rate had increased, and near death, their eyes were somewhat "popped". They also went through the above described medications, without apparent improvement. I don't know if this is the same issue as the Malasa, but thought it noteworthy.

<br>

<br>

<br>

Craig

<br>

</P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: loyiie</STRONG><BR><BR>I have exactly the same problem with my Red Empress. The only food that it seems to go after is bloodworms but it's unable to swallow. It just stays in one corner and hardly swims. The only other thing is that every night when the lights are out on the tank and the whole room (say 1am at night) then my red empress would start spinning around uncontrollably like a helicopter blade and then sink belly up at the bottom of the tank. But every morning when there is a bit of sunlight in the room then it'll just stay around the top corner of my tank acting "normal" again.

<br>

<br>

I've treated him with Furan, EM tablets, triple sulfur and salt baths but to no avail. I'm surprised that it's lasted this long (it's been OVER a month). As yet none of my other fish have been infected and I'm now deciding on euthanasia. I've researched on most diseases on cichlids but I still haven't found one that matches mine. I'm also wondering if it's TB. But because I'm new to cichlids, I've got no idea what it is.

<br>

<br>

The only other thing is that the Empress' eyes are a bit cloudy but not as bad as a fish with cloudy eye disease. Any ideas on what I should do??

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: mattyc25</STRONG><BR><BR>I recently had a similar wasting disease (check old posts)as my malawis had sunken bellies. Also, working in my LFS I have learnt much about treatments that do and dont work. We had a very similar ailment affecting some rainbowfish resulting in bent spines, etc. New fish in this particular tank sometimes got this illness, sometimes didn't. And some fish were fine for months on end with no symptoms at all, while others got similar symptoms to those described. In both cases we tried many different treatments, and the only one that cured my fish and the shops fish was tetracycline. I am now a big fan.

<br>

<br>

Matt

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: ajk</STRONG><BR><BR>hey guys,

<br>

sorry to hear about ur fish but i was wondering what would initiate such a problem?

<br>

andrew

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: loyiie</STRONG><BR><BR>I've got no idea whatsoever what may have caused this problem in my Red Empress. I've been doing everything by the book since I've setup this tank ie weekly water changes of 20% and maintaining the filter media every 2-3 weeks and the water conditions are close to perfect. I've had my Empress since it was 2cm long and it's been growing rapidly until it reached about 12cm and has always been hoggin most of the food until now. It was colouring up really nicely but sadly it's lost a lot of its colour and has gone a pale grey with dark patches. You can still see shades of red on its body and a blue hue on it's head but it's far from the colour of a healthy one.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: kevsta</STRONG><BR><BR>I had the same problem with my colony of adult Discus and they all perished eventually to the disease that you describe. I treated with salts, flagyl, praziquantel, octozin, raised temperatures but not luck. I lost them one by one over a period of 6 months.

<br>

<br>

When I look back I suspect it could have been transmitted by a new fish that I introduced to the aquarium which showed no signs of illness at the time, or it could have been the live black worms from a dodgy source.

<br>

<br>

I've given up on discus and am now trying my luck with malawis and tanganyikans.

<br>

<br>

K.

<br>

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: CThompson</STRONG><BR><BR>

<br>

It looks like there are no answers out there.

<br>

<br>

Normally, I have no disease issues with any of my fish. So unfortunately, I don't feel particularly confident when issues arise. Perhaps if I just taken out the male, that was I now believe the carrier of this issue into my tank (sourced from a friend, and I didn't quarantine it), and introduced him to a hammer, I wouldn't still be having ongoing concerns. I hope my problem is over, as the fish are all still eating. I tell you what though, woe to any fish that has an off day and decides not to eat....

<br>

<br>

<br>

Is tetracycline an antibiotic? It sounds very familiar, is it a human medicine? Where is the best place to purchase it?

<br>

<br>

Craig

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Arj</STRONG><BR><BR>Craig,

<br>

i did a search in google and found out that it is a broad spectrum anitbiotic. It shows antiprotozoal activity. Humans can also use it. "Tetracycline is prescribed for many different infections particularly respiratory tract infections due to Hemophilus influenza, Streptococcus pneumonia or Mycoplasma pneumonia. It is also used for Rocky Mountain spotted fever, typhus, chancroid, cholera, brucellosis, anthrax, syphilis and acne"

<br>

<br>

I think matt just purchased it from the aquarium. I'll find out the brand name.

<br>

<br>

<br>

Arj.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: mattyc25</STRONG><BR><BR>I work in an aquarium and got it from there. SHould not be hard to get, we order it easily from several places. I think the brand I used was 'aquamaster' but working off memory there.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: loyiie</STRONG><BR><BR>I just bought some tetra cycline at my LFS (quite expensive... it costs around $25 for a small bottle). It's called Bio-Tet and it's made by a company called Aquasonic.

<br>

<br>

It doesn't have any instructions about the duration of the dosage except that it's 1 tablet per 20L.

<br>

<br>

Matt, can you tell me how I should administer this treatment?? ie repeat dose after 24 hrs, or do a 20% water change etc??

<br>

<br>

I just isolated my fish yesterday and treated it with tetracycline. It hasn't shown any improvement yet so I'm not sure if I should repeat the dose with/without a water change etc.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: CThompson</STRONG><BR><BR>loyiie,

<br>

<br>

In case you don't get any answers to your question. If it were me, and I had the choice to make, I would leave the antibiotic in the system for about three days, water change say 50%, then dose again. Bearing in mind that this is an ?educated? guess, and only to be followed if no others give detailed instructions.

<br>

<br>

My thinking is that, as it is an antibiotic, any bugs that are not killed in the first dose, may have been weakened, but will come back stronger, with the possibility of immunity to the antibiotic in following generations. Hitting them a second time, while weakened, my be better, than one dose alone.

<br>

<br>

As for my fish, they don't seem to be showing any signs of the problem that they have been having for month (such a relief), and I am tempted to put my other Malasa in with them. My hesitation is that my fish in the "infected" system, my have built up an immunity to the problem, where as if I put my other Malasa in there, they will come down with the problem, and it will start all over again.

<br>

<br>

Craig

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: mattyc25</STRONG><BR><BR>My bottle had no directions either apart from one tablet every 20 litres. I think thats the brand I used as well, If it is a yellow label with some blue on it it is the same one, same directions anyway.

<br>

<br>

I dosed for 5 days then did a half water change and filtered with carbon. The fish handled the medication very well, no losses and improvements in their sunken bellies in about 2 days, with apparent full recovery in about 4. I cut back on feeding during this time, and kept the water very very well aerated with a power filter with venturi, a canister outlet and a large limewood air-stone connected to a big air-pump.

<br>

<br>

Matt

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Smokey Jewel</STRONG><BR><BR>Well I've got it too...

<br>

<br>

After reading the above I've come to the conclusion that I too have this disease in my main display tank! Lost my best male yellow in 2-3 weeks by the above symptoms. Followed by a yellow female, last night i disposed of a 4cm electric blue.

<br>

<br>

As many of the others have said, my tank conditions too have been very good for the last 12 months or so since I moved to the place Im living now (penrith). Have had no problems to my knowlege other than aggression.

<br>

<br>

I'll go looking for that med today & hopefully this will be the only fish I will have lost.

<br>

<br>

Smokey.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: CThompson</STRONG><BR><BR>I definately had improvement with Furan-2 which I purchased from Fish4U. I still don't think my fish are over the problem. I killed a young leptosoma Mpimbwe last week, and my hammer and I have been eyeing up a half grown Malasa lately.

<br>

<br>

Craig

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: AndrewP</STRONG><BR><BR>I have heard about your itchy hammer finger Thompson ha ha. Re those discus it was very likely to be internal worms, veyr common in discus with the same symptoms as this wasting disease. Feeding a wormer will do the trick. to late now though of course.

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: YeW2001</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Guys -

<br>

<br>

I am tank sitting some of Alex's C. leptosoma 'Mpulungu' and I have seen this problem in leptos. This disease seems to be common to a few species.

<br>

<br>

When I got Alex's leptos there were two thin ones. One died quite quickly (round a week) - one, a subdominant male, is still thin. He won't eat with the other leptos - but will eat algal wafers when the lights are off (when they are on he hides from the dominant male)...

<br>

<br>

I have only seen this in leptos, nimbochromines and some of the lake victorian cichlids - no luck treating it myself.

<br>

<br>

Thanks for all the ideas

<br>

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Kayne</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi All,

<br>

<br>

I too have had this type of thing affect my fish.

<br>

In a Tang community it seemed only the Cyps were affected.

<br>

<br>

I used an antibiotic with no success I ended up doing the "catch and freeze" method.

<br>

1 little warning to those using medications and bacterial filtration..... The 2 don't mix.

<br>

<br>

<br>

Cheers

<br>

Adam

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Smokey Jewel</STRONG><BR><BR>All,

<br>

<br>

One thing I did forget to mention is that I did not have this wasting problem a few months ago. And the only thing to change in this time was the addition of a few salousi, and 5 Auloncara "otter point" juv's.

<br>

<br>

The only other point to mention is that at about the same time I started using rain water whn conducting weekly 10% water changes. I normaly do not do this buts been raining lots and thought it a good idea. I have since stoped this idea and will use tap water again.

<br>

<br>

However I have used rain water (collected off garage roof into buckets, very tedious) in both of my other tanks too! But no problems in either of them, containing convicts and more Otter points....

<br>

<br>

I'm going back to doing things by the book, and hopefully things will improve. I don't regret it though, (my fishy decisions that is) its all part of the learning curve. I would not have it any other way....I love my fish! I'll admit I do have a few favorites, but they all have a very special place in my home, just ask my wife! She'll tell you alll about it......

<br>

<br>

Smokey.

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Arj</STRONG><BR><BR>So if this is like an internal parasite would it be better to treat the fish with metriodonzale (or what ever its called). ie put it in/soak in food and feed fish?

<br>

what is furan-2? i tried looking it up but can't seem to find any articles that explains what it is and what it targets.

<br>

<br>

arj

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: YeW2001</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Arj -

<br>

<br>

I don't thing it is an internal parasite, otherwise you would suspect other fish would be affected. Perhaps stress causes it?

<br>

<br>

I have tried worming treatments & antibiotics with little effect on this problem.

<br>

<br>

It is frustrating and odd - but thankfully a limited number of species/genera are involved.

<br>

<br>

</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: kevsta</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi,

<br>

<br>

I tried metronidazole for about 4 weeks with high water temperatures but couldn't eradicate the wasting disease.

<br>

<br>

I have had success with metronidazole when treating fish that have white stringy poo though, and it is effective. But six months after treatment the fish has become a runt.

<br>

<br>

<br>

Regards.

For years I have struggled on with the issue, and though I have plenty of healthy active fish, and produce many young, this issue has stayed in there hanging on to plague my fish and I.

It is my understanding that there is no one in the world who can look at a fish and say "that fish has wasting, treat it with 'such and such' and you will get rid of the problem". It has become my belief that there are a number of different things that can cause this problem, and I think that depending on what is causing the wasting, and possibly how far down the fish is on the road to wasting will determine how to treat the fish, and if the fish can be treated at all. Others are free to dispute these comments, as they are my opinion only, and it would be interesting to have some feedback to these thoughts.

It affects different species differently, and can even have different affects on the same species but different localities (for example Cyprichromis species). It can even have a greater impact on the same locality but different sex (females seem to be hit harder) and even impact differently on wether the fish is mature or a young fish (can't get your young fish to an adult size?). It can hit and kill within weeks, or may take months, but the end result is the same.

I have treated with all sorts of medication from Sterizin to Furan II to UV sterilisation (18 watt bulb rated at doing 20,000 lph, run at 2200 lph). I have gone down the route of euthanasia for any fish showing the first stages of any symptoms, but always, another would show signs of wasting, to the point I would have killed the entire school of Cyprichromis if I had continued down that road. At the end of the day, I no longer have Malasa or Mpmbwe, so the result was the same.

I have notice that Cyprichromis species are particularly susceptible, but I have also seen Altolamprologus calvis and Yellows and Cobalts for example with what looked to be wasting. I am sure a lot of people's fish will have it and they will have no idea that they do.

It can be a hard thing to pick, as the consequences of the disease has different impacts. The most common and obvious first sign is when a fish takes in food, only to spit, and race to the next bit of food, and to spit that out and race off to the next piece. If one doesn't look close enough, it looks like you have a ravenously healthy fish, it is only on a closer inspection that you may notice in fact the fish is not ingesting anything.

I have also seen a change in behaviour, in that a fish may become less active, and may become more....docile("He's a good male, he's not hard on the girls."). A loss of colour may also present. A combination of food spitting, less active and colour loss is a sure sign.

I have even seen in some extreme cases, body deformities, where when viewed from above the fish's body has been forced into an "S" shape, or when viewed from the side another fish I saw was a banana shape.

In short, it kills, can be hard to diagnose, and can take weeks or months to become fully obvious. It is also hard to get rid of.

I was speaking to a vet and was intending to bring an infected yellow in for a necropsy to see if I could get a professional to tell me EXACTLY what I could treat my other fish with. I was informed that when she has done necropsies on her own fish that she has never been able to identify anything. In the ensuring conversation, we discussed all the things that could be done to treat them, and one by one I learned that I had done it all.

It was later turning this conversation over in my mind, I thought to myself, if a fish appears not to be eating, taking food in, only to spit it out, and this fish can last for weeks/months, then perhaps there is something that it is in fact being ingested, before, during or after a feeding for them to last as long as they can sometimes do. In the past I have used medications that were applied either to the water, or added to the fish's food. When I have added it to the food I would only mix up enough to do a feeding or two, and would only use one medication at a time. So I thought to myself what I needed to do was to mix up a large batch of medicated food, with several medications, and feed that exclusively for as long as the mix lasts.

I make my own frozen food, with prawns, fish, peas, spinach and so on, so I thawed out a part, and preceded to mix in Worm Rid tablets, Reptile Worm Rid (liquid), both of which have active ingredients of praziquantel and fenbendazole. I also used Seachem's KanaPlex, three medicines I happened to still have around. I made separate batches for each medicine. The batches I mixed up were enough to last two whole weeks of 2-3 feedings per day, and that was about two months ago.

I got rid of any fish that looked too far gone before I started with this food, but some fish during the treatment spat the food out, but now, two months later I have not got a fish that is spitting.

So though it is still early days, I am really starting to hope I may have fixed my problem.

Craig

Treatment

Worm rid - 1/2 tablet per teaspoon of food

Reptile Worm Rid - no directions but keep in mind if it tastes too strong the fish may not eat it.

Seachem's KanaPlex - 1 measure per tablespoon

I can say i haven't come across many disease's since i've been keeping fish beside's whitespot and a mystery disease that killed a whole tank in 2 days, the surface of the water had like an oil slick as if somebody poured olive oil into the tank.

Anyway if this was to happen again i don't have anything on hand to treat it.

I was wondering if we'd be able to get a guide from our experienced members about which medications we should keep on hand, and for which applications.

I'll list a few that i seen; Melafix, Pimafix, Sterazin, Myxazin, Protozin, Fungas ade, ickaway, triple sulfa and the list goes on....

Thanks in advance

Regards James

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<br>

Anyway, i had a heater problem 2 weeks ago, and changing my substrate on the weekend probably didn't help either but last night i noticed my male P.Taiwan Reef had white spot(i know the disease, had it on some Aulonocara a few years ago) but the LFS was closed and i had no medication at home and no computer to ask you guys for help or home remedies.

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I have always believed it was caused by stress, but if it's a parasite could it attack my other fish next ?

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So, can anyone give any good info on the disease, medication/treatment ? Any info would be appreciated.

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Thanks

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Matt

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Corrimal

<p></P></DIV><H2>Replies »</H2><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Molly Man</STRONG><BR><BR>increase the heat to 27-28c

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add some aquarium salt, say about 1 tblsp per 4-8L, perform partial water changes every other day with the salt diluted, maintain this for 10-14 days and hey presto... done...

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110% gaurantee you will get rid of it...

</DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks for the reply Molly Man.

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So if this parasite has killed one of my fish and i can see another 2 breathing heavily can i assume all my fish are infected ??

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I'm gonna try your treatment method but some stuff i've read today says that once the fish is infected thats it..........game over. The only time to kill it off is during it's reproductive stage after it's done the job on your fish.

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Is this true ? Last time around it killed everything. The fish came from the same shop last time too, is it likely thats where it came from(my Protomelas are new additions and first to die from it).

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Thanks

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Lata

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Matt

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Melbourne Bill</STRONG><BR><BR>Matt

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I agree with Molly Man. Yes probably all of your fish are infected now but NO it is not necessarily a deadly disease.

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I would add rock salt (sodium chloride) to the tank rather than more aquarium salt.

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If the fish are getting too distressed I would also give them individual salt baths. Using rock salt (sodium chloride) and add 10 - 20 grams to a litre of aquarium water in a separate container. Place the fish individually in the bath and leave them for a maximum of 15 minutes - watch the fish to make certain they do not become too distressed and remove the fish when it seems to be losing balance.

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The salt bath strips the mucus coat from the fish and hydrostatically destroys the ich in the skin. After a fish has been in the bath you might see some red specks (of blood) on the surface of the fish where the ich has been removed from.

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I would also add Melafix to the tank to help protect the fish and also combat the Ich.

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The above advice is based on my personal experience and is intended solely for your consideration.

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Bill

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks guys.

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Well, i got home yesterday and most of my fish were breathing very heavily(in both my adault tanks) but no spots yet, so i dosed em up with some salt and turned the temp up to about 29-30degrees(was already at 27). Hopefully they'll all be fine, didn't look any worse this morning anyway.

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Now for my next worry, i stripped 40 odd fry from one of my females on the weekend. Are these fry also likely to have it ?(i'd imagine they would) And how do you think some 1-1.5cm C.borleyi fry will handle the temp increase and the added salt ? Would they be better off with medication or wait and see if any die first ? I really dunno what to do here.........never really raised fry before.

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Any advice is much appreciated

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Thanks

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Matt

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Corrimal

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: nels87</STRONG><BR><BR>When your increasing the temp make sure you provide more oxygen and Yes, It's very likely your fry will also carry the disease. Just go to the LFS and purchase "Rapid White Spot Remedy" - I used it once and 2 days later - HOORAY! DON'T OVERDOSE

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GOOD LUCK!

<p>

Violent. Aggressive. Insanity.

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evilprince57@hotmail.com

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Liverpool - SYDNEY

<br></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: danceswithdingoes</STRONG><BR><BR>I'd err on the side of overkill, increase temp (and aeration) add the rock salt and dose with Aquapet "Rapid Cure White Spot Remedy" and repeat the three-daily doses four times with a 20% water change between each. Look for clamped fins and lethargy as an early indicator of ich, as these symptons often precede the spots.

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Glad to hear you're 'equipped' now Nels

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If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Geoffargus</STRONG><BR><BR>G'day Matt,

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Here's a little info on your "white spot".

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(Ichthyophthirius multifiliis)

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First its a parasite and should be treated as such.It is not only on your fish but in your tank! The grown parasite lets go of the host and swims around looking for a quite area of water where it can reproduce. It attaches itself to an object and then it encloses itself into a capsule, within which it divides itself into 2 cells then 4 cells and so on until up to a thousand swarmer cells are formed within 8-24hrs.(this will vary with temp.)They then leave the capsule and swim in search of a new host fish! Thats the basic cycle of this little beast.As far as the remedy the above mentioned can work with good success provided the are done with some care. Temp. treatment is above 30 and below 16 deg.C will not sustain this parasite but is stressful with most species. Salt baths are no good unless you are treating the tank also. When you put the fish back a new 1 will take its place. I must say I think that some of the commercial medications are the best with less stress on the fish as I have seen many spawn with medication in the tank but can't recall spawning with heat or salt treatments.

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Remember to remove all carbon from filters before medication.

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I use Promethyasul which is a single dose per week medication or Ichonex a three day course. A week later I do a water change and run some carbon to absorb the meds. and thats it in 99% of all cases. Rarely is a second treatment needed.

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Hope this gives you some understanding of whats going on in your tank!

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good luck!

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cheers

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Geoff...

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<br></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: c2105208</STRONG><BR><BR>I know whenever a post comes up that is regarding white spot I say the same thing butttt.....

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Whenever I get it I go straight for formalin solution... I tried meds/thermal/salt and everything when my discus got stuck with whitespot and in the end after a good few weeks of attempting (and getting worse) only thing that worked was formalin. Ended up having to treat individuals that were worst with a short bath then treat the tank dilute...

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However it is a harsh treatment. I'd suggest the methods above before resorting to this unless u really are experienced because it can be risky and deadly if not done with care..

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Cheers,

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Adam

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Thanks alot everyone, Most my fish seem to be doing Ok so far with a fair amount of salt added to my tanks and a temp of 29. Though i'm sure the medication is gonna be much cheaper than replacing the fish in three tanks so i think some medication is in order too. I really can't afford to be replacing so many fish right now. And i hate seeing them die.........

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I know this is gonna be touchy one, and i promise not to mention any names, but my P.Taiwan Reefs were only 2 weeks old(well i bought them 2 weeks ago), is it likely the white spot came from the LFS ?

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And how long would you guys wait to replace the dead fellas ?

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Thanks again everyone

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Lata

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Matt

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Just an update for anyone interested.

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Tanks are currently at 29 degrees, i added a fare whack of salt last week and treated them with Rapid White Spot remidy on Friday.

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Haven't had much luck, all protomelas are now dead

, down to 4 Auloncara and 1 C.borleyi and they aren't looking too sharp, lots of heavy breathing and scratching of gills going on. My fry tank is very rapidly emptying also. At this rate i should be fishless by the end of this week.

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Will do a water change and add more medication this afternoon but i'm not too hopefull. The little fellas look like crap.

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Fingers crossed there isn't another 1 or 2 dead when i get home today.

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Lata

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Matt

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<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: fiona ls</STRONG><BR><BR>You need to repeat the medication several times. I had some Baaad white spot not long ago, a couple of fish looked like they had been dipped in sugar. I used a malachite green based remedy, at the recommended dose, every two days, four doses. I read that the only time the ich are susceptible is as free swimming larvae, not in the cyst stage, and not when they are on the fish. This regimen cleared up my white spot. Also vacuum your tanks to get up the cysts.

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You need to make sure the parasite is being cleared up by whatever medication you are using, as some can be resistant, if one is not making a difference (give it a couple of repetitions as it won't make them drop off the fish), try a different one, eg. malachite green based if that doesn't work, try formalin based (or the other way around). There is some good web based info out there if you look for it.

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I didn't have much luck with just the temp and the salt. But the medication did the trick, even the sugar dipped ones survived. Although I did lose some before the spots appeared, I didn't realise at that time that you could get ich without the spots.

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Fiona L.S.

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Lalor Park, NSW</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Hi Fiona, yeah only my first fish had actual spots, all the rest have died before getting any.

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Got some more medication today(my tank used nearly a whole bottle.....wasn't expecting that). Will vacuum, water change and re-apply medication when i get home.

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Thanks

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Matt

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<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: fiona ls</STRONG><BR><BR>you might want to make that five doses, I have noticed a few scattered spots appear a few days later (but no ill acting fish) ... am retreating that tank.

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Fiona L.S.

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Lalor Park, NSW</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: E4G13M4N</STRONG><BR><BR>Treatment for white spot that I came across in a article some time ago, medication is not required

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1.. Raise the temp to 28-29c

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2.. Add some sea salt

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3.. Turn off all the lights and place a dark blanket or covering over the tank for 4 or 5 days (cant remember that part

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)

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4.. Feed fish at night useing minimal lighting ??

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White spot is supposed to die off if no light is supplied to complete its cycle..

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Disclaimer:

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I havn't tried this process as yet as i havn't had a case of whitespot for ages..However i do know a couple of people that tried it with good success

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^Mark^

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<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: fiona ls</STRONG><BR><BR>I have never had it before this (at least not that was recognisable?). I have read before that it's present but subclinical in most fish, and shows up when fish stressed, but more recent reading says no, not always present, gets introduced, and able to be eliminated. Can be subclinical also? Probably. Also apparently often infects gills but you don't generally see them unless you look.

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Working on eliminating totally and then get super careful about quarantine (my quarantine was getting less than perfect ... with non fish shop fish anyway ... overconfidence/previous lack of problems I guess).

<p>

Fiona L.S.

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Lalor Park, NSW</P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: Harward</STRONG><BR><BR>Well none dead yesterday when i got home and my Aulonocaras actually look a bit better than the previous day.

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Also, no more dead fry that i could find so it seems things may be on the up for my fish. Obviously going to continue treatment as per directions/advice.

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Thanks for all the advice.

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Lata

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Matt

<p></P></DIV><DIV id=Atextbox><P><STRONG>Author: bimborocks</STRONG><BR><BR>What fiona said is fairly right i think, at least from an aquaculture point of view. i do all the disease checking at work and many diseases are there but in very low numbers and only become a problem or fish show signs of the disease when they become stressed. much like us i guess, we become more likely to get sick when stressed.

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on white spot there are various stages to the life cycle and it is easiest to get rid of when it is in it's free swimming stage, unfortunatly unless skin srcapes and gill filliments are looked at specificly for diseases it won't be seen and i doubt that anyone wants to do this to their prized fish. so the first time that the white spot is actually noticed is when it is a white spot on the fish and this is the stage that is most likely to be fatal for the fish as it also infects the gill tissue.

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apparently the salt seems to be working but continue to treat for a week or two after the symptoms have cleared up to allow for all the cysts to become free swimming and most vunerable to any med's. personally i would use a malachite green based med, but it is terrible stuff that stains everything and is not too good for carpet's either (just ask my mum

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hope all turns out well

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James

<p>

Two fish swim into a concrete wall.

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One turns to the other and says "dam"</P></DIV>